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By PETER BAUMANN /• Saturday, April 02, 2011

University of Wyoming

Richards was protesting with other UW students, which was perfectly fine, Lane said. Problems arose when Richards, who was wearing an empty holster on his right hip, refused to be searched.

“(Officers) asked if they could search him for a weapon, and even offered to take him away from the rest of the crowd so he wouldn’t be embarrassed by that, but he refused,” Lane said. “They asked him several times if they could do that, and he continued to refuse, so at that point they asked him to leave for the evening, and he refused to do that as well. This went back and forth several times until they finally decided that there was no sense in continuing the argument, so he was arrested.”

Read more and comments at : http://www.laramieboomerang.com/article ... 793581.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps some resources here might help him
http://thefire.org/case/763.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO an empty holster is at least reasonable suspicion that an individual may have a handgun. If the officer can articulate that into a reasonable belief that a danger might be present, I think a Terry frisk is fine.

To refuse the search was his blunder. Hope all ends up ok though.

My first thought was that refusing was the right thing to do...

My second thought was that agreeing to the search would have been better from a "protest" point-of-view. The Police check you out, see that you are clean and you are then free to continue your public protest through the wear of an empty holster. I get the impression that the LEO's would have left him alone after that. Folks would have seen the Police not appearing to be perturbed/alarmed/etc. in his presence, and assumed that the guy was not up to some nefarious act.

gigag04 wrote:IMHO an empty holster is at least reasonable suspicion that an individual may have a handgun. If the officer can articulate that into a reasonable belief that a danger might be present, I think a Terry frisk is fine.

To refuse the search was his blunder. Hope all ends up ok though.

This sort of blunder is what gives me pause...

gigag04 wrote:IMHO an empty holster is at least reasonable suspicion that an individual may have a handgun. If the officer can articulate that into a reasonable belief that a danger might be present, I think a Terry frisk is fine.

I don't understand this logic. If I'm wearing a fanny pack at school does that give campus police the right to search me for a weapon? I know you are pro-2A, but I just don't understand how you can get from an empty holster to a reasonable belief that a danger might be present any more so than any other time. I don't know what he was protesting, but OC is legal in WY, even on campus. Had his holster not been empty the only problem he would have had was possibly with school rules, but that wouldn't have been illegal and therefore not an issue for the police. I won't call it harrassment, but I just don't understand the reason for the need to search. BTW, there was no mention of him having a concealed gun once arrested. I'm fairly sure they searched him then.

51 weeks a year, I'd say an empty holster might be reasonable suspicion.

On Empty Holster week .... maybe, but not necessarily.... could be an 18 year old girl who never saw a gun but is supportive/campus carry sympathizer or even just a member of a Republican Student Group. ... might have reasonable suspicion of being Republican though.

At protests on campus regarding illegal aliens "right" to cheaper tuition, I haven't seen any being asked for green cards/student visas. Although I'd think some might have a vested interest, and raise a reasonable suspicion.
I'm pro-police, not sure I'd consent to a search if I thought the goal was that the campus chief didn't want free speech on that topic, I might if it was the short blonde officer who smells good... that situation could have been handled better by the student, but perhaps he was just wanting publicity anyway .... dunno.

I think this was a reasoned response by police. If I was in a place posted by a 30.06, say one that I had not seen, and I was asked if I had a concealed weapon due to some failure to conceal (not having an OC empty holster!), then I would expect to be approached and would listen intently to the LEO. If asked to leave he wouldn't have to say it twice!

This wasn't even a student, instead an outside protestor. I support the LEO on this one.

gigag04 wrote:IMHO an empty holster is at least reasonable suspicion that an individual may have a handgun. If the officer can articulate that into a reasonable belief that a danger might be present, I think a Terry frisk is fine.

To refuse the search was his blunder. Hope all ends up ok though.

In fact, under the circumstances, wearing an empty holster could almost be considered an invitation to a Terry frisk.

I understand what the student was trying to advocate, but he failed to recognize the realities under current law. The police were caught in a no win situation and made a conservative judgment call after extensive efforts to make their duty as painless as possible for the student.

As a general rule, if you are on shaky ground and push a point with the police, they're unlikely to just shrug their shoulders and walk away. They're in the business of resolving issues, and the likely end game in such a case is an arrest that throws the matter to the courts to sort out.

Prudent folks find ways to avoid letting things get to that point.

Thing is that this is "empty holster protest week" ... but he was arrested LAST WEEK

UTEP made the newspapers and TV news for it, but no one was searched ...
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=43927" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure lots are being worn at A&M etc.

C-dub wrote:I don't know what he was protesting, but OC is legal in WY, even on campus. Had his holster not been empty the only problem he would have had was possibly with school rules, but that wouldn't have been illegal and therefore not an issue for the police.

That information really changes the dynamic. Would concealed carry be legal, too? If so, they had no possible grounds to ask for a search. The best they could come up with would be trespassing after they told him to leave and he refused.

More context

This was LAST WEEK ... prior to an Ann Coulter speech, holding anti- Ann Coulter signs .... not part of this week's Empty Holster protests
http://www.ewoss.com/photos/deb8d671-c6 ... 646ea.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ann Hart Coulter ..... lawyer, conservative social and political commentator, author, and syndicated columnist.

I'd have probably wanted him searched in that context, but not this week while he stood by the SCCC tables holding different signs.

With nothing to hide he should have complied with the request to search… IMHO.

OTOH, if he was merely seeking attention, he succeeded in gettin' some.

There was a comment posted on the link by a person who says that he witnessed what happened:

" It wasn't his empty holster that was the problem. It was refusing to even disclose if he had a weapon. They gave him many chances to submit to a search. They told him many times if he didn't he could leave. He told them to make him leave. So they did. You don't need a warrant to stop and frisk if there's a possible danger. "