How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuses?

Colleges are places to learn, not die at the hands of attention-starved mass-murderers.

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Hoi Polloi
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How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuses?

#1

Post by Hoi Polloi »

Below is an excerpt from a post Charles made today on the thread discussing the Campus Carry bill. It made me start thinking of how to reach this demographic that is statistically very liberal (university faculty and 18-24 year olds). I made a proposal on a seminar for gun-phobes a while back, but I don't think that would be effective in reaching this group because you couldn't get them to actually attend. The fact that you couldn't hold it on campus wouldn't help. So what are some other ideas that are actually effective and how can we go about implementing them?
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Everything that could possibly be done for campus-carry was done. Senator Wentworth battled harder for this legislation than most legislators do for any bill. The 2/3 rule in the Senate is and always has been a controversial subject. Many years ago we used it to block anti-gun legislation. In recent years, it has worked against us, but not often. I still don't like it.

I want to be candid about the campus-carry bills this session. While it's easy to point to two Senators and say they cost us campus-carry, that's not necessarily accurate. The truth is the opposition to campus-carry was absolutely huge and it was constant. For every pro campus-carry call, fax, or email sent, there were hundreds in opposition. And it never stopped; the calls and emails were coming to the very end. In all my years of legislative work, I've never seen the level of opposition to a gun bill, or any other bill for that matter. For those who watched the hearings in the House and Senate, the daily opposition ran just as strong.

The real irony is that some of the strongest opposition came from the very people we were trying to help -- college students and faculty. That's a hard fact to ignore when you are an elected official. I have no idea why it was so much stronger this session than last, and it certainly wasn't John Woods, though he'll likely take credit for it. He simply doesn't have the influence at the student/faculty level, much less with the deep pocket donors to universities who opposed the bills just as strongly.

It's clear there is a lot of educating that needs to be done before campus-carry passes. We have to remember that the general public simply doesn't care about this issue and the idea of "guns in school" still strikes fear in the hearts of many of those who are not as well educated on the facts of concealed carry and self-defense as are those in the active shooting community. It's not their fault, nor ours, it just the way it is. We have to change that through education.

Chas.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#2

Post by Ameer »

The antis proved that emotion works. Now the good guys need to harness that power.

Every time there is a violent crime on campus, call out the senators and representatives who voted to allow that to happen. Write letters to the editors. Post on message boards. Tweet if you have to.

Every chance we get, we need to remind people that Rep. Muggerhugger helped kill the law that could have prevented that crime.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by Oldgringo »

Ameer wrote:The antis proved that emotion works. Now the CH Licensee good guys need to harness that power.

Every time there is a violent crime on campus, CH Licensees should call out the senators and representatives who voted to allow that to happen. Write letters to the editors. Post on message boards. Tweet if you have to.

Every chance we get, CH Licensees need to remind people that Rep. Muggerhugger helped kill the law that could have prevented that crime.
:iagree: , there is strength in numbers... :tiphat:
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by Charles L. Cotton »

I want to track crimes on university/college campuses all over the state. I kept the domain ConcealedCarryOnCampus.com to use in case we needed it in the future. Unfortunately, that's turned out to be a good decision.

That site will be used for several purposes and tracking campus crimes.

Chas.

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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#5

Post by esxmarkc »

I want to track crimes on university/college campuses all over the state. I kept the domain ConcealedCarryOnCampus.com to use in case we needed it in the future. Unfortunately, that's turned out to be a good decision.

That site will be used for several purposes and tracking campus crimes.
It is a gallant effort Charles but here is a kicker for you. I have close ties with several good folks that attend college(s). Two are CHL and one carries albeit not legally on campus. He/she does so because he/she often finds themselves walking to their car well beyond the 12am hour after cram sessions and late night lab time at a college plated within in the armpit of Houston Texas.

I am told that there have been several incidents where these young folks or their close friends were able use their concealed weapons to survive encounters with criminals who would do harm to them on campuses.

And these crimes never get reported for fear of their legal ramifications. And these are the incidents that carry the most weight in the pro-campus carry arguments.

One of these individuals theorizes that if campus-carry did ever pass we would actually see an increase in the amount of reported crimes since there are some crimes out there that you never hear about for fear of legal entanglement.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#6

Post by Jasonw560 »

As Miyamoto Musashi wrote in The Book of Five Rings: "Know your enemy, know his sword"

We know who these people are, but do we really know what kind of tactics they use? Be it SGFS, or bigger ones like PETA, Greenpeace, ELF, and even the Brady bunch, we have to realize where they get their strategy. The quick and easy answer would be "Rules For Radicals". But, I also believe they get a hodge podge from Machiavelli's "The Prince", Musashi, and Sun Tzu, among others.

We have to be willing to understand these tactics. Read "Rules", read "The Prince". Read "The Communist Manifesto" without your head exploding. (Knowing his sword)

Then, when it's understood, present them with it. Here's a paradoxical analogy: I find it like witnessing the love of Christ to people. Some people need to be hit over the head with it, some just need to be shown how you act. Some need to be brought along slowly, figuring things out for themselves. It's all about reading your adversary. (Knowing your enemy)

Will some of them resist? Of course. But, many people are open to persuasion if done right. You plant a seed of doubt, and water it to help it grow.

I totally agree with some of the things presented: Write articles in your paper, tweet, espouse logic every way you can. Email your congressman. Have dialogues with those who don't like guns. WHy can't we have them on college campuses? It's all how you present it. Listen, and understand. There's lots of great resources out there. You just have to find them.

I have to get up early for work tomorrow. So mull on this for tonight. More later. :sleep
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by 4copas »

I’m very thankful to all that worked so hard on this. Let’s do figure out the way to *effectively* turn the tide on college campuses. My daughter is a senior at UNT in Denton, and is very disappointed with the outcome of this so far. My work on this issue began when she asked me, What good does my gun do me locked in the car and I’m looking at a ten minute walk to and from my class?


I think the title “Campus Carry” is misleading to the general public. Certainly the media’s “Guns on Campus” title is misleading. Both strike the fear in the hearts of the general public. Every person I talked to about this had no idea that guns on campus are already legal by CHL holders. Once processed in their minds it has been legal for years with no issues, and the real issue is just extending the law to going into buildings, their response is, “Well, what’s the problem then? Why is it such a big deal to go to class the same way you walk around campus?” I really feel that if the general public just knew it has been legal for CHL’S already to carry on campus, and have been for years, there would not be so much opposition from students and faculty. Maybe it should be called “Extended Campus Carry” or something. I don’t know the answer, but it just seems the title is where the fear starts with the general public and gives the media their fear factor ratings. Just my 2 bits.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#8

Post by chasfm11 »

.......In all my years of legislative work, I've never seen the level of opposition to a gun bill, or any other bill for that matter. For those who watched the hearings in the House and Senate, the daily opposition ran just as strong...........

Chas
I think that is the key to this situation and many others.

Look at Wisconsin and the fervor of the opposition there earlier this year. I think that many saw the action taken as potentially the death knell for collective bargaining for municipal employees. It was more than a budget crisis, that's for sure.

I think the opposition to campus carry is about more than guns. I think the opposition sees it as attacking the castle wall that has been put up around the Liberal stranglehold on education. Like overweight is often not about food but about other factors, I think the opposition to guns is often about control and the attempt to stifle individualism. As evidence, I'd offer the firestorm that was created over the Texas textbook reviews. While the Liberals controlled the committee and stifled the Conservatives, there was little or no controversy. When the tables reversed and Conservative changes to the textbooks were made, the situation was splashed across the news regularly.

Campus carry is not a skirmish in neutral territory, it is the conflict carried into the opposition's camp. It doesn't surprise me that they put us such a fuss. The stories about the professors who were going to take the matter into their own hands in their own classrooms underscores that power struggle, at least for me. I suspect that the couple of professors who made those feelings known publicly are but the tip of that iceberg.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#9

Post by Jasonw560 »

4copas wrote:
I think the title “Campus Carry” is misleading to the general public. Certainly the media’s “Guns on Campus” title is misleading. Both strike the fear in the hearts of the general public. Every person I talked to about this had no idea that guns on campus are already legal by CHL holders. Once processed in their minds it has been legal for years with no issues, and the real issue is just extending the law to going into buildings, their response is, “Well, what’s the problem then? Why is it such a big deal to go to class the same way you walk around campus?” I really feel that if the general public just knew it has been legal for CHL’S already to carry on campus, and have been for years, there would not be so much opposition from students and faculty. Maybe it should be called “Extended Campus Carry” or something. I don’t know the answer, but it just seems the title is where the fear starts with the general public and gives the media their fear factor ratings. Just my 2 bits.
How about just "extending our rights to the classroom"? (Too long, maybe a tag line, though) The anti groups and media always say, "They're forcing us to have guns on campus". How can anyone force a right on you? I've said this before in another post---the "force" is the rules these colleges are making prohibiting our rights. We're not forcing anyone to do anything. They are forcing students to being victims. That's a key message we need to come after them with.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by Jasonw560 »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I want to track crimes on university/college campuses all over the state. I kept the domain ConcealedCarryOnCampus.com to use in case we needed it in the future. Unfortunately, that's turned out to be a good decision.

That site will be used for several purposes and tracking campus crimes.

Chas.
Wouldn't it as easy as getting all the CLERY reports once a month, and importing them into some user-friendly format?

Maybe links to news stories about some of these crimes, as well.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#11

Post by Jasonw560 »

"Campus defense

Extending 2A rights to the classroom."

Catch-all to get it not just in colleges, but primary and secondary schools as well.

Just a few ideas on how to proceed either via website or print (or both):

Re-enforcing the RKBA. How it's a right, and the media and anti- misinformation about "forcing guns on campus".

Education on concealed carry laws, pertaining to colleges and schools right now.

Crime trends from other colleges out of state. (CLERY reports, etc)

(In a perfect world) get video of college presidents, chiefs of security, and students about the effects CC has had on their campus. (Feel safer or less safe, etc.)

Get the study Steve wanted done, either commissioned by a college or the NRA/TSRA, for college admin. and legislators.

(Locally) have booths at trade shows, "Market Days", other venues explaining views, with brochures and membership forms to TSRA and NRA.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#12

Post by JJVP »

Ameer wrote: Every time there is a violent crime on campus, call out the senators and representatives who voted to allow that to happen.
Calling anyone is not going to do any good in my opinion. I'm going to hate saying this, since i hate lawsuits, but the one thing that will hit them where they hurt is money. Have everyone that gets assaulted, mugged, raped, etc ,specially those with CHLs, sue the university. Maybe we can talk a few lawyers into taking the cases pro bono. It might force the universities to either post a policeman at every corner or relent on their opposition to campus carry, specially if it is accompanied with a provision exempting the university from liability. Hit them where it hurts, their wallets.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by RHenriksen »

Coming in 2013:

"The Student Protection Act"

Support the SPA! Heck... can we make it a 'Pro Choice' argument?
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

#14

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

4copas wrote:I think the title “Campus Carry” is misleading to the general public. Certainly the media’s “Guns on Campus” title is misleading. Both strike the fear in the hearts of the general public. Every person I talked to about this had no idea that guns on campus are already legal by CHL holders. Once processed in their minds it has been legal for years with no issues, and the real issue is just extending the law to going into buildings, their response is, “Well, what’s the problem then? Why is it such a big deal to go to class the same way you walk around campus?” I really feel that if the general public just knew it has been legal for CHL’S already to carry on campus, and have been for years, there would not be so much opposition from students and faculty. Maybe it should be called “Extended Campus Carry” or something. I don’t know the answer, but it just seems the title is where the fear starts with the general public and gives the media their fear factor ratings. Just my 2 bits.
You are absolutely correct and this is a key part of the educational program I envision. We use "campus-carry" as a shorthand term for everything we need in a bill, including amendments to the Penal Code, Government Code and Education Code. While useful, this terms is not very descriptive for the reasons you have stated. My plan is to launch an entire educational series on "Personal Security on Campus" and it will focus more on the individual student's security, rather than on mass murders on campus. Preventing a Virginia Tech on a Texas campus is a legitimate goal and passing "campus-carry" would lessen the possibility, but I believe the real focus needs to be on the individual like your daughter walking alone.

Campus crime is grossly under reported, but not only in terms of students reporting to campus police. The colleges/universities under report their crime statistics on the Clery Reports and I'm going to be working on that issue. I've had numerous UT students contact me and report crimes that were the subject of school emails, or personal knowledge, that didn't show up on required reports. I'll be sending Open Records Requests to numerous universities and I'll use those responses to . . . well let's just say I'll be using them. Passing campus-carry will require educating the general public and exposing lies.

Chas.
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Re: How do we *effectively* turn the tide on college campuse

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Post by Jasonw560 »

Charles, let me know if you need me to do any leg work on those reports from UT-PanAm, UT Brownsville, TSTC Harlingen or South Texas College.
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