Austin Gun Show Troubles?

[jmra]

Showing my ignorance here.... I thought you had to be an FFL to sell guns as a business in the gun shows anyway? I know there are individuals who walk around selling a gun or two, but I thought the booths selling guns had to be FFL's and had to run the background check? Don't get me wrong, I don't like gvt intereference period, but I just assumed this was already a BATF rule.

nope. I've seen a lot of "private sale" tables at gun shows. The last gun I bought was from an individual with a table. These tables and people walking around are about the only place to find a real gem of a deal. You really have to look through some overpriced junk but there are deals to be found. The big boys selling new stuff have a store to take the stuff back to if they don't sell it - I have not found them to be that much cheaper at show.

[A-R]

Just watched the KVUE-TV (ABC) local news and they touted a "breaking story" on their 6 pm newscast that "soon Austin area residents may have to change the way they sell their guns". I'll be watching their 6 pm newscast and hope they post the story on their web site soon.

Below is all I have found so far on the Statesman.com website (local newspaper's site). What appears to be a word-for-word reprinting of an APD press release, which libels the gun show promoter by saying multiple crimes were committed at HIS SHOW ... OOPS, that was at the SAXET show, not the "Texas Gun Show" which only just started holding shows at this venue. Wonder if they're going to let this stand as the only news that's fit to print, or if they'll make an effort to actually interview the gun show promoter and get his side of the story.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... he_blotter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Home > The Blotter > Archives > 2010 > January > 19 > Entry

APD outlines its role in targeting illegal activity at gun shows
Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 04:26 PM

FROM THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT:

Federal Immigration, Customs, and Enforcement (ICE) agents worked cooperatively with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) agents last year in a long-term operation targeting illegal gun trafficking that was stemming from local gun shows. Austin Police Department Firearm Review Unit detectives assisted in the Austin portion of the operation. They observed and participated in multiple arrests of prohibited persons (primarily convicted felons and illegal immigrants) that obtained firearms illegally at a local gun show.
Federal convictions were obtained in a majority of the cases.

Virtually all of these sales to prohibited persons were made by unlicensed dealers or private citizens, both inside the gun show and in the parking lot of the gun show. While the sale of firearms between private citizens is not illegal, the anonymity of these sales in or around the event created an easy avenue for illegal immigrants or convicted felons to acquire firearms. Because of this recurring activity at a single location, the Firearm Review Unit referred the case over to the APD Nuisance Abatement Unit.

Due to the history of criminal activity at the gun show, the Nuisance Abatement Unit scheduled a meeting between the property lessee (HEB Grocery), the building sub-lessee (Andrew Perkel a.k.a Austin Market Place), the event promoter (Darwin Boedecker-Texas Gun Shows) and ATF. During this meeting, APD along with ATF offered to all parties, recommendations to curb the illegal activity that had been documented in the past. At the conclusion of the meeting the lessee agreed that the recommendations should be followed and instructed their sub-lessee to follow the recommendations. The sub-lessee then informed the event promoter to implement the recommendations at the next show. The recommendations that the lessee directed the sub-lessee and the event promoter to follow were:

Only licensed gun dealers are allowed to sell firearms at the gun shows
The promoter will provide on-site security to prevent parking lot gun sales
The promoter will define a process for people other than licensed dealers that show up with a gun that they want to sell
There was an understanding that the January 16-17, 2010 gun show would follow these recommendations.

Get the latest crime reports in your neighborhood with the Statesman's Crime Tracker.

[HankB]

. . . The gun show's promoter is not the bad guy in this. He was given notice of all this on Thursday, knowing full well all his vendors would be setting up the next day. He was basically presented with an ultimatum from HEB, steered by BATFE and APD, to either post these "rules" or you don't have your show.

IANAL, but one party to a lease or rental agreement cannot abrogate the agreement or change its terms without agreement by the other party. Leases and rental agreements are essentially contracts, and if one side tries to weasel out of the specific performance of their side of the contract, they will be slapped down and probably pay some hefty $$$ in court, especially if they cost the other party some money.

There must be more to this than what we're hearing, even now.

[A-R]

. . . The gun show's promoter is not the bad guy in this. He was given notice of all this on Thursday, knowing full well all his vendors would be setting up the next day. He was basically presented with an ultimatum from HEB, steered by BATFE and APD, to either post these "rules" or you don't have your show.

IANAL, but one party to a lease or rental agreement cannot abrogate the agreement or change its terms without agreement by the other party. Leases and rental agreements are essentially contracts, and if one side tries to weasel out of the specific performance of their side of the contract, they will be slapped down and probably pay some hefty $$$ in court, especially if they cost the other party some money.

There must be more to this than what we're hearing, even now.

IANAL either, but many lease contracts have stipulations that the lessee will not allow/condone/take part in any illegal activity and to do so voids the lease. From all I've read/listened to, APD and ATF are not dumb and they set this up beautifully. When they found out that Texas Gun Show was not the same as the Saxet Gun Show where all these supposed past crimes had taken place (thus necessitating involving the APD's "nuisance abatement force" - whatever that is), they made this false arrest at this past Saturday's show to prove to HEB that "see, they're still making illegal transactions on your property".

Someone needs to find this person who was "arrested" and get him to testify about what really happened.

[Oldgringo]

Oldgringo ... !
Austin Police chief ... IS FROM CALIFORNIA ... !
He transplanted from the CHP (California Highway Patrol)
BUT.... I don know if he is to blamed, for this kinda' action ?!

Mac

That's very interesting. Doesn't the chief have to approve, in some form or fashion, what the indians do? (Absolutely no disrespect to the native American Indians intended.)

[A-R]

OK, here's a written story on KVUE.com web site. Still awaiting the on-TV story. Love the second sentence ... "police are now setting the record straight" ...

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Gun-show ... 15242.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gun show owner alleges rights violation
by NOELLE NEWTON / KVUE News

Posted on January 19, 2010 at 5:47 PM

******

A gun show owner says the Austin Police Department violated his constitutional rights. Police are now setting the record straight.

The controversy centers around a yellow flyer passed out at the Texas Gun Show in North Austin last weekend. It reads:

"Selling of Firearms"

At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following:

1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner.

2. Selling of firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.

Thank you for your cooperation!

APD Detective T.J. Vineyard told reporters in a news conference Tuesday, the recommendations were the result of a year long police investigation of the gun shows.

"Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.

Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico.

"Some people would go to vendors to purchase a firearm, and when they were asked to fill out paperwork to do a background check they would bypass that vendor and go to another vendor that wouldn't require a background check,” Vineyard said.

HEB rents out the building where the gun shows are held. Company representatives asked for help to stop the problem. APD and members of the ATF recommended show owner Darwin Boedeker stop allowing private citizens to sell guns without the assistance of a licensed dealer. Thus, forcing every buyer to have a background check.

"Most of the people who are trying to achieve legitimate sales of firearms want that protection, They want to know the gun their buying isn't stolen or the person they sold a gun to isn't a felon or on parole for murder,” Vineyard said.

Boedeker says the request is a violation of our constitutional right to freely sell guns.

"What they want to do is shut the gun shows down. This just doesn't affect me. This affects you, this affects the person down the road, every law abiding citizen,” he said.

Boedeker went along with the recommendations for last weekend's show, but still APD made an arrest. He says HEB has since told him he can no longer hold shows here. Boedeker is convinced police wanted to HEB to make that call.

"At least they knew where to go to arrest them. If there wasn't a gun show, they'd be down in a back alley. Felons are always going to be able to get a gun. That's why they're felons. They don't follow the law,” Boedeker said.

"We didn't mandate anything, we didn't direct anyone to do anything. We made suggestions to them and how to handle that with their tenants or sub-leasers is a civil matter among them," Vineyard said.

Police say during the past year they have arrested eight people on illegal weapons charges. Texas Gun Shows has been using the North Austin Event Center since November. Before that the Saxet Gun Show was there. Boedeker says he knows of only one arrest since he's used the property. He says he's trying to find a new location for his show.

[Oldgringo]

Other than the buildings, is there any other reason why Austin is still the capital of Texas?

[Shorts]

Other than the buildings, is there any other reason why Austin is still the capital of Texas?

Texas should rotate cities to serve as the capitol. They can switch it up every session and no one knows what city is up next. That way you can't get this overload mass of miscreants who flock to capitol cites with an agenda.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

they are succeeding in keeping austin wierd. I think they are moving from wierd to Commifornian tho!

[A-R]

Watched the KVUE-TV report, or at least part of it (stupid DVR ). Followed along with the written piece.

But it was the LEAD STORY.

Apparently APD held a full press conference on this subject today. Circling the wagons?

EDITED TO ADD: here's the video version of the story from kvue.com website ... http://www.kvue.com/video?id=82115242&sec=551077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GeoJAP]

Yes, HEB is telling Darwin that they will not allow him to hold any more gun shows at the Crockett Center.

The HEB Phone number where you can call and give them a piece of your mind is 800-432-3113.
The KVUE Channel 24 phone number where you can tell them about their "news" story is (512) 459-6521.
Austin Mayor Leffingwell's phone number: (512) 974-2250
Austin Police Department: 512-974-5000

[A-R]

So been trying to explain what is happening with this Austin gun show to sheeple and fence sitters who're non-committed on the RKBA issue. I've come up with an analogy that so far has worked to sway their opinion enough for them to say, yeah that is messed up what APD is doing. Here's the analogy I used:

Suppose you run a motel. You just started leasing the property from a landlord a few months ago. This isn't a Holiday Inn, not even a Motel 6. Your hotel takes cash, and everyone knows that people go to this hotel for "intimate" encounters. You don't condone anything illegal and have told the local street walkers to beat it a few times. You try to make your hotel more "family friendly", but there is always an certain type of customer who prefers discretion and not having to pay with a credit card. Some busybodies may not like it, may think it's immoral and unethical, but what goes on in your hotel to the best of your knowledge is perfectly legal and between consenting adults.

Then one day you're invited to a meeting with your landlord and some local police detectives, plus an agent from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and a special FBI taskforce on sex crimes. They tell you that while the hotel was run by previous management, they busted 8 prostitutes in the hotel in the last year. This has become a big enough problem that the Feds are looking into it because some illegal immigrants may have been involved. They tell you that they need to put an end to the illegal activity in your hotel and offer some "suggestions" for how you might help them do this. They suggest you tell all your customers that sex of any kind is not permitted in your hotel rooms, and that law enforcement will be monitoring the rooms to ensure these rules are followed. When you balk at prohibiting your customers from engaging in private and legal activity, which will obviously ruin your business and quickly force you into bankruptcy, the police tell your landlord that their special "Nuisance Task Force" is looking into the possibility of having the property condemned and shut down because of these "multiple crimes" that are causing a nuisance in the neighborhood. Your landlord tells you he can't afford any trouble and this kind of heat from the police and Feds scares him. You're going to have to comply with the recommendations, or he is going to break his lease agreement with you.

[GeoJAP]

Sounds about right. Good job.

[A-R]

Here are stories from ...

KEYE-TV (CBS) http://weareaustin.com/content/news/story/?cid=46651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

KXAN-TV (NBC) http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/Gun-show-c ... ghts-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[surprise_i'm_armed]

austinrealtor, et al:

So with all this hassle that APD is giving the gun show guys,
can't the gun show just relocate to Round Rock and deprive
the City of Austin of all the sales tax paid on weapons?

Businesses shouldn't be hassled, and if Austin is not gun show
friendly, maybe a trip up the road would make everyone happy.

SIA