Perry or White

[Charles L. Cotton]

Other than sign a couple of bills that were going to pass with huge, veto-overriding Legislature support already, what has Perry ACTIVELY done for RKBA?

Either you are new to Texas or don't follow "gun politics" closely. Gov. Perry hasn't signed "a couple of bills" he signed every single one that NRA/TSRA supported and others we weren't involved in. He even signed two that could have cost him dearly, politically speaking. As for being "veto proof," there's no such thing when your party controls both the House and Senate.

Here are just a few examples of what Perry has done for gun owners:

• Signed every pro-gun bill put on his desk;
  Called for amending Texas law to allow CHL's to carry there guns everywhere in the State (like LEO's);
  Signed an amicus brief (in the Heller case) from Texas supporting the proposition that the Second Amendment was an individual right;
  Publicly supports campus-carry;
  Appointed a new Col. over DPS with instructions to clean up the CHL processing problem;
  He has a CHL and carries a gun;
  Spoke at the NRA convention in Houston giving a speech that had even NRA Board Members on their feet cheering;
  Life member of the NRA and TSRA.

These are just a few examples. There are other things he's done behind the scenes to help gun owners.

Has he supported open carry?

Nothing to support; there's been no bill filed and neither the NRA nor TSRA have approached him for support since our members haven't asked us to support open-carry.

Has he supported reducing the DPS fee on getting a CHL?

He has stated he would like to see the fee lowered.

Has he supported Vermont/Alaska-style CCW?

Nothing to support; there's been no bill filed and although great progress has been made, this is not yet politically feasible.

Has he supported the "parking lot" CHL exemption?

Yes, he strongly supported the employer parking lot bill and it wasn't limited to CHL's; it applied to all lawful possession.

And, has he done ANYTHING different than Bill White wouldn't do in the same situation?

Bill White hasn't done anything to support gun owners, but he has worked against our interest.

He was a member of Bloomberg's Gaggle of Lying Mayors until he resigned in 2009 when wanting to run for Hutchison's seat in U.S. Senate. Fellow Democrat John Sharp wanted to run for that seat too and he blasted White for being a member of Bloomberg's anti-gun farce. White lied and said he resigned when he found out "the scope of Bloomberg's plan" but Chris Cox, Exec. Director of NRA-ILA sent him a letter in 2007 explaining MAIG's true agenda. Perry was never a member of MAIG.

Here are more specifics:

• White never repealed the City of Houston policy of making CHL's wear special red visitor badges that had "CHL" on them, even though he was told that the policy violated the spirit of the law concerning confidentiality;
  White let his name be put on a letter from Bloomberg to Nancy Pelosi opposing national reciprocity for CHL's;
  White opposes campus-carry and wants to "leave it to schools to decide;"
  White opposes Texas preemption laws and supports "local control" allowing cities to establish any "no gun" zones they feel are appropriate;
  White doesn't have a CHL;
  White has never opened his mouth in support of gun owners rights.

If you want to support a Libertarian then fine, do so. But don't try to argue that there is no difference between Governor Rick Perry and proven anti-gun Bill White.

Chas.

[A-R]

Here are just a few examples of what Perry has done for gun owners:

• Called for amending Texas law to allow CHL's to carry there guns everywhere in the State (like LEO's);

The man already has my vote, but if he gets THIS done .... he'll have my lifelong support for whatever office he runs for next.

[sjfcontrol]

Here are just a few examples of what Perry has done for gun owners:

• Called for amending Texas law to allow CHL's to carry there guns everywhere in the State (like LEO's);

The man already has my vote, but if he gets THIS done .... he'll have my lifelong support for whatever office he runs for next.

Hmmm, wonder what he's got planned for 2012? (Besides being governor...)

[seeker_two]

Thank you for your reply, Mr. Cotton.....esp. about the reminder about White's record (...and don't forget his refusal to acknowledge the Travelers Law revisions)....

But, my original question still stands....what has Perry actively done to promote RKBA? Other than sign a few bills that passed with significant majorities in the TX Legislature and had NRA (a group which didn't support Heller or McDonald, but took credit for them anyway) stamps of approval....and made a few nice speeches to friendly crowds, I haven't seen much from him. So what makes you (or any other voter) think that he'd do any more? It's not like he'd have to do anything....

Also, I'm a little disappointed that groups like the NRA and TSRA would support Perry over Glass...a person who is pledging to do more for RKBA than Perry is....but I'm also surprised that a group like the NRA is leaving the heavy lifting to groups like the Second Amendment Foundation and OpenCarry.org.....maybe I've been backing the wrong horse all these years....

[Ameer]

FiveThirtyEight predicts 95% chance of a Perry win, with Perry getting 53% of the votes.

Their predictions for congress are Democrats keep control of the Senate but lose the House. Voter foreclosure!
Senate: 52 Democrats and 48 Republicans
House : 203 Democrats and 232 Republicans

The full monty is at http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Charles L. Cotton]

But, my original question still stands....what has Perry actively done to promote RKBA?

Everything a Texas Governor can do, that's what. Back to the issue. You said there's no difference between Perry and White on gun issues and I listed facts showing your statement was unfounded. Do you still claim there's no difference between Perry and White on guns?

. . . NRA (a group which didn't support Heller or McDonald, but took credit for them anyway)

This is complete garbage and you should know better. If you didn't know before you joined TexasCHLforum then you should do a search on Heller and McDonald before making false statements.

Also, I'm a little disappointed that groups like the NRA and TSRA would support Perry over Glass...a person who is pledging to do more for RKBA than Perry is

What has Glass done for gun owners so far? You want to ignore what Perry has done, yet rely upon what Glass claims she will do . . along with supporting a state income tax. If she were to be elected Governor, what could she do that Perry hasn't? Is she going to miraculously create power for herself that the Texas Constitution does provide to a Governor?

....but I'm also surprised that a group like the NRA is leaving the heavy lifting to groups like the Second Amendment Foundation and OpenCarry.org.....maybe I've been backing the wrong horse all these years....

This is so absurd I won't bother to respond. This is complete and utter crap. SAF and OpenCarry.org don't carry anything, much less do the heavy lifting. Take your NRA-bashing to another forum; you're not going to use TexasCHLforum to spread this stuff. It's one thing to disagree with what the NRA does or does not do, but spreading false allegations will not be tolerated.

Chas.

[G.A. Heath]

First off I have to address the disinformation regarding the NRA and SAF, and for the record I am a member of both organizations.
1. For Heller the NRA did appose the case at first, for sanity reasons. No one in their right mind wants to go to court unless they are a lawyer, simply because courts can frequently be very unpredictable. Imagine what would have happened if the USSC had ruled exactly opposite of the way they did with Heller, that is what the NRA was afraid of. When the case did make progress the NRA did support it as best they could considering they were not a party to the case.

2. Regarding McDonald the NRA and SAF both had cases that were similar that were, if I'm not mistaken, combined at one point in time. When the Appeals Court ruled and McDonald was accepted by the USSC the NRA did petition to argue in that case. Some people, myself included at that time, felt the NRA was stealing the SAF's thunder but their argument for incorporation was the one that 4 of the justices signed off on, while the fifth justice on our side signed off on the SAF's argument. So when it comes to McDonald the SAF got the case to the Supreme Court, but the NRA actually won that one.

Now back to the subject of the thread: Perry has a proven pro-gun track record while White has a proven anti-gun track record, and Glass has only proven that she can make campaign promises. Guess who gets my vote?

[Ameer]

Guess who gets my vote?

Kinky Friedman?

[G.A. Heath]

Guess who gets my vote?

Kinky Friedman?

ROFLMAO ... No, guess again.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Here is a thread that contains a history of the NRA's involvement in Heller and how the NRA quite literally saved the Second Amendment from Levy/Gura's recklessness. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20238&start=0&hilit ... .+Dorherty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As in Heller, the NRA's briefing carried the entire case in McDonald. Read both cases and see which brief's were quoted as the basis for the decisions. In McDonald the NRA's oral arguments were well received by the Court while Gura's Privileges or Immunities argument was flatly rejected by everyone except Justice Thomas.

Chas.

[seeker_two]

Thank you for the link, Mr. Cotton....esp. since it brought up this particular article...

Thought you might find this interesting reading. http://reason.com/news/show/129991.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...and a predictable response....

Official NRA revisionist spin coming in 3... 2... 1...

The NRA's actions (or lack of) shown in the Reason article and the McDonald case have been documented by independent pro-RKBA sources like Tom Gresham, Michael Bane, and others. The NRA has been almost Clinton-esque in its grasp of the truth. Kinda sad really....considering that Gura and the SAF accomplished more in two SCOTUS cases than the NRA has done in the last decade.

.....Levy/Gura's recklessness.

If accomplishing more in two SCOTUS cases than the NRA has done in the last two decades (like tepidly challenging the AWB) is "reckless", then it seems that "recklessness" is the winning strategy....

As for the rest of your replies on both threads....this will sum it up nicely....

This is so absurd I won't bother to respond.

Now, since we're not going to find common ground here, shall we return to the OT?.....

[G.A. Heath]

The NRA did win McDonald for us, that is beyond any kind of a doubt. What is also beyond any kind of a doubt is that the SAF got the case to the Supreme Court so it could be won. If the USSC hadn't give some of SAF's/Gura's time to the NRA the case would have been lost because the argument made by SAF/Gura was rejected by 8 out of 9 justices while the NRA's argument was the deciding factor to win the case. I could go and show how the NRA's brief was a deciding factor in Heller, but its easier to demonstrate with McDonald. I do disagree with the NRA not mentioning the SAF at all in many cases when they talk about Heller and McDonald because I am one of those Whole Truth types. I will also point out that the NRA is the "big dog" when it comes to gun rights and if you want to make a change to how they act, vote for new leadership within the group. The NRA isn't perfect, the SAF isn't perfect, TSRA isn't perfect, but when you combine their efforts you really do see progress. Heller and McDonald would have been really different if the NRA hadn't done their part, in fact we could have easily lost both cases (especially McDonald). Now I am a member of both the SAF and the NRA because I see both as being valuable what groups are you a member of?

[Charles L. Cotton]

The NRA's actions (or lack of) shown in the Reason article and the McDonald case have been documented by independent pro-RKBA sources like Tom Gresham, Michael Bane, and others. The NRA has been almost Clinton-esque in its grasp of the truth. Kinda sad really....considering that Gura and the SAF accomplished more in two SCOTUS cases than the NRA has done in the last decade.

Show me the proof, don't just make more unsubstantiated claims. Everything in my response to the self-engrandizing Reason article is documented in the legal procedural history of the Heller and McDonald cases. I make the same challenge to you as I did K.B. Craig, perennial NRA-basher -- show me where I was inaccurate in any of the facts I related in my response. Don't just make false and vague statements as you have been doing, show me the proof. Show the proof you claim came from Tom Gresham, Michael Bane and others. Don't mere allude to it, show me. I'm not talking about someone making unsubstantiated claims as you are doing, I mean show the proof behind those claims.

Did you bother to read the briefing in those cases? Who carried the case? Why did the S/Ct. allow the NRA to argue in McDonald? Whose legal argument was accepted, was it SAF/Gura or the NRA's? Who provided the funding for 30 years of scholarly research and writing that was cited in NRA and NRA-funded briefs that were also cited by the S/Ct.?

As I said, disagreeing with what the NRA does or doesn't do is fine as it's just a matter of personal opinions and different approaches. People can disagree about NRA ratings and/or endorsements, legislation we push and don't push, but lying about the NRA will not be tolerated. This is not an idle threat.

Chas.

[seeker_two]

The NRA's actions (or lack of) shown in the Reason article and the McDonald case have been documented by independent pro-RKBA sources like Tom Gresham, Michael Bane, and others. The NRA has been almost Clinton-esque in its grasp of the truth. Kinda sad really....considering that Gura and the SAF accomplished more in two SCOTUS cases than the NRA has done in the last decade.

Show me the proof, don't just make more unsubstantiated claims.

I've led you to the water....I don't have time to do the drinking for you....

Did you bother to read the briefing in those cases? Who carried the case?

From what I read, Gura was making successful strides...he didn't need the NRA leadership's help in McDonald any more than he needed it in Heller.....

Why did the S/Ct. allow the NRA to argue in McDonald?

Political influence translates in a lot of ways....

Whose legal argument was accepted, was it SAF/Gura or the NRA's?

From what I read, they accepted both in McDonald....but only Gura's in Heller....since the NRA leadership came late to that party....

Who provided the funding for 30 years of scholarly research and writing that was cited in NRA and NRA-funded briefs that were also cited by the S/Ct.?

...which was about all that the NRA leadership had been doing...otherwise, why didn't they bring these cases?....

This is not an idle threat.

I believe you....the NRA leadership has tried to silence Gura and others as well....

I do disagree with the NRA not mentioning the SAF at all in many cases when they talk about Heller and McDonald because I am one of those Whole Truth types. I will also point out that the NRA is the "big dog" when it comes to gun rights and if you want to make a change to how they act, vote for new leadership within the group.

Big dogs that lie comatose in the corner aren't as scary as the smaller dogs that have latched onto your neck....and the smaller dogs are the ones winning the RKBA fight right now.

I do agree about changing NRA leadership....maybe that's the next fight here....

Anyway, I'm done here.....enjoy the election results....and let's see what Perry does for RKBA in the next four years....

[Charles L. Cotton]

Typical; all talk and no facts. It's easy to throw slanderous comments around then ignore it when people ask you for proof.

Chas.

The NRA's actions (or lack of) shown in the Reason article and the McDonald case have been documented by independent pro-RKBA sources like Tom Gresham, Michael Bane, and others. The NRA has been almost Clinton-esque in its grasp of the truth. Kinda sad really....considering that Gura and the SAF accomplished more in two SCOTUS cases than the NRA has done in the last decade.

Show me the proof, don't just make more unsubstantiated claims.

I've led you to the water....I don't have time to do the drinking for you....

Did you bother to read the briefing in those cases? Who carried the case?

From what I read, Gura was making successful strides...he didn't need the NRA leadership's help in McDonald any more than he needed it in Heller.....

Why did the S/Ct. allow the NRA to argue in McDonald?

Political influence translates in a lot of ways....

Whose legal argument was accepted, was it SAF/Gura or the NRA's?

From what I read, they accepted both in McDonald....but only Gura's in Heller....since the NRA leadership came late to that party....

Who provided the funding for 30 years of scholarly research and writing that was cited in NRA and NRA-funded briefs that were also cited by the S/Ct.?

...which was about all that the NRA leadership had been doing...otherwise, why didn't they bring these cases?....

This is not an idle threat.

I believe you....the NRA leadership has tried to silence Gura and others as well....

I do disagree with the NRA not mentioning the SAF at all in many cases when they talk about Heller and McDonald because I am one of those Whole Truth types. I will also point out that the NRA is the "big dog" when it comes to gun rights and if you want to make a change to how they act, vote for new leadership within the group.

Big dogs that lie comatose in the corner aren't as scary as the smaller dogs that have latched onto your neck....and the smaller dogs are the ones winning the RKBA fight right now.

I do agree about changing NRA leadership....maybe that's the next fight here....

Anyway, I'm done here.....enjoy the election results....and let's see what Perry does for RKBA in the next four years....