TSA says beware of implanted bombs

[chasfm11]

The interesting thing about all of this is that US Customs already uses a form of behavior profiling. We drove our RV into Canada and on the return (into Michigan), the US agent questioned us about the most bizarre things (he asked my wife directly if she wanted to see me go over Niagara Falls). He was apparently trying to see if she showed any signs of nervousness. Those that failed his test got their vehicle searched. I've come through US Customs via airline and felt as though there was a similar approach there.

I fully understand the greater risk of allowing someone with a weapon or a bomb on board an airplane versus simply allowing someone into the country. My view is that ignoring behavior ends up creating a much greater risk than not doing it. Scanning is only as good as knowing exactly what to look for and being able to find it. TSA seems to be failing on both of those counts.

[VMI77]

TSA seems to be failing on both of those counts.

They're getting pretty good at finding the iPods people are trying to sneak through in their luggage though. If only those pesky airline employees would just mind their own business. And it makes me wonder, since video surveillance is supposed to be so good for the rest of us, how come TSA luggage searches aren't being videoed? How come an airline employee has to catch a TSA thief? Where are the TSA supervisors?

http://www.local10.com/news/28477423/detail.html

[bnc]

I think it would be pretty easy to spot someone with an implanted bomb since they would probably look quite ill with their body trying to reject that foreign object. If they were really worried about bombs they would use dogs, which are fast and quite accurate. Any non-explosive weapon (knives, clubs, etc) aren't really a problem since, after 9/11, no group of passengers would allow the plane to be hijacked. Even with a knife or club a handful of terrorists are no match for dozens of passengers.

But that all assumes that the DHS actually intends to make fly safe, when in reality their goal is to is to intimidate and harass the public so thoroughly and consistently that we cease to care enough to fight back. Their goal is to break our will to stand up for our rights. It's working on some.

The best way to go about airline security would be to return security to the individual airlines. Those that employ draconian security measures and those that provide insufficient measures according to passengers will lose business while those that provide security that is widely thought of as good will gain business. The formerly draconian and insufficient airlines will imitate the successful airlines' security measures in order to regain passenger market share.

[The Annoyed Man]

Regarding profiling based on country of origin stuff, I have a personal story to tell.....

In 2005, I went to France with my wife and son on a 3 week vacation. At the time, I still lived in California. We flew on American from Burbank to DFW, and changed planes there for the international flight. On the return leg, we flew into DFW and went through customs there before making the connecting flight back to Burbank.

Now for background, I have dual citizenship by an accident of birth, and my birth occured in Casablanca, Morocco, in 1952. My father was an American employed by a large construction firm, working on a large construction project in Casablanca when I came along. With the exeption of one year living abroad when I was eight years old (because my dad had a Fulbright Fellowship to teach in French universities for one year), one trip to France when I was 18 for a summer vacation with my parents, and excepting the few months between my birth and our family's arrival back in the U.S., I have lived my ENTIRE life in the United States. My race is caucasian. My ethinic ancestry is primarily Norwegian and French, with a bit of English/Scottish/Irish thrown in. My religious faith is evangelical Christianity. I speak bubba with a bit of a drawl. In other words, I do not match by any means you care to describe it, the profile of a terrorist. I'm not even in the same likely age group, for crying out loud.

So on that previous trip to France when I was 18, I travelled on a passport obtained by my parents. In the years following that trip, my mother lost that passport. So when I prepared for the trip in 2005, I had to report that passport lost and get a new one. In order to obtain that passport, I had to provide my copy of my Certificate of Live Birth signed by the U.S. Consul in Casablanca in 1952. Apparently, this was good enough for the U.S. Dept of State, and I was issued a new passport.

Fast forward to the return leg from France in 2005.... We get off the plane at DFW and head for the immigration and customs lines. At the desk where they check everybody's passports, my wife went through, my son went through, and then I went through. The officer at the desk started asking me questions. "Sir, you were born in Morocco?"

"Yes, I was. In 1952."

"How long did you live there, sir?"

"We left when I was a baby. I've lived my entire life in the United States. I'm an American citizen."

"Sir, you reported your passport lost, and this is a new one."

"Yes. My mother lost my previous passport some time after my last trip to France when I was 18......almost 40 years ago."

"What countries did you visit on this trip?"

"Only France."

"Sir, would you please follow those two officers there? Thank you.....Next!"

At which point, two armed officers show up, one right behind me, and the other right up close to my side, and they perp-walk me into a back office. My wife is crying. My son is crying. Nobody will tell them what is happening, except that they are to go downstairs to the customs area and wait there.

I get taken into a room and given the third degree. Literally. Bright lights. A no-nonsense inquisitor. He keeps asking me the same questions over and over again, but differently each time, trying to trip me up on my answers. I kept my temper, and I dutifully answered all the questions truthfully. They asked me about where I worked. How long I had worked there. Where I had worked before that. What kind of work did I do. Who my parents were. Where did I live. Where did I live before that. How long did I say I was in France? What other countries did I visit while I was there. (*) It went on and on and on. Finally, I grew tired of the game, and I said to the officer, "Look, I've answered all of your questions. Repeatedly. My answers have been consistent. I am not lying. I am a citizen of the United States, my citizenship is beyond question, and I do have some rights in the matter. I have a connecting flight to make so I can get my family home, and it leaves in 15 minutes. (When they took me aside, I had nearly an hour to make that flight.) Now, are you going to turn me loose, or do I need to get lawyered up?" The bastard actually thought about it for a second before saying, "no, we'll let you go."

He then tried to consol me as he escorted me to where my distraught wife and son were waiting by saying "the good thing about this is that after we put you through it, we don't make you wait to go through customs. I'll just walk you up to the head of the line and tell them to let you all through." I could have had a pound of cocaine in my carryon for all he knew.

Now, all of this was because I was born in a Muslim country, 53 years previously. The fact that I had lived my entire life in the U.S. as an American citizen meant nothing. Nothing at all. They "profiled" me based on the land of my birth, and on nothing else about me. They profile people because they are cranky after having been cooped up on an interational flight for 10-12 hours. They profile people simply because they remember a time when Americans were free to move about their nation without some officious self-important small-minded punkass minor functionary giving them permission to do so, and they resent it, and their resentment shows. But God forbid they should profile someone who actually possesses the background credentials to be a potential terrorist in today's world.

Oh, no. Treating your own citizens like terrorists is easier, and it makes good theater.

(*) One of the reasons that I look forward to the collapse of the European Union is that they no longer maintain frontiers between their member nations. One can fly to France, drive to Hamburg to consort with known radical Islamists, drive back to France, and fly back to the U.S., and the only thing that will show on your passport is your entry into France, and your entry back into the U.S. There will be no entry stamp into Germany or an entry stamp back into France. Consequently, the entry stamp into France you obtained on first arrival has no significance to people charged with American security. In the old days, they would have known where you had been, simply by looking at your passport. I will never again travel to Europe until the EU collapses and national frontiers are maintained again. It's just not worth it for someone who carries the "stain" of having been born in Morocco on their passport.

My experience tells me that they deliberately profile anybody they can EXCEPT those they ought to be profiling. The accident of my birth gave them a straw to hold onto so that man hours could be invested in profiling me and they could look like they were doing their jobs. It is all theater. They're actually scared to death of the day that they have to do their jobs for realz, because that is the day that the emperor's new clothes will be exposed, and nobody will be able to defend their uselessness.

People tend to be dismissive of TSA's intrusions (and the intrusions of INS and Customs) because it isn't happening to them. But I believe.....or rather, I would like to believe that most Americans, regardless of political persuasion, would hoist the Jolly Roger if they had to go what I had to go through just to get home. It wasn't a case of mistaken identity. It wasn't a case of my being a person of interest in an actual crime committed. It was pure and simple a fishing expedition, and I was detained by armed men, separated from my family, and given an old-fashioned interrogation as part of that fishing expedition. It wasn't right then. It isn't right now. It will never be right. The people who enact these policies and empower their underlings to enforce them are enemies of the state. This is NOT what our founders intended for us. This is NOT what my dad fought and bled for on Iwo Jima. It is, simply, indefensible.

[chasfm11]

How come an airline employee has to catch a TSA thief? Where are the TSA supervisors?

To me, there is no more salient point to be made than this one. The inherent problem with every government group is that there is limited supervision. If you asked TSA, they would tell you that their supervisors do a great job but their internal security test failures and incidents like this one tell a different story. To be fair, any organization the size of TSA will have those who find a way to game the system. But yours in the important point. Again, it was someone outside who solved a TSA problem. Just as it was not TSA who stopped the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber, it was not TSA personnel who identified this thief. To me, if a group dedicated to detection cannot even detect its own problems, it is inherently flawed.

What TSA (and other programs) need is the equivalent of the police internal affairs. While those kinds of groups are not perfect either, they are a lot better than what TSA has in place today. Again, the fault of TSA is not in the individual agents, many of whom are dedicated and hardworking. What is rotten is the leadership - from the very top right on down.

[FNguy]

no not that kind the boom kind. Yes the TSA has now said that they think terrorists will implant bombs to get through security. I can only imagine what the TSA checkpoints will look like now
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/06/bomb.i ... ?hpt=hp_t2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought the pornoscanners were supposed to detect things like bombs in pants and bomb implants. If not, what do they do, other than bombarding our DNA with radiation? Now I know how the test subjects in the Tuskegee syphilis study felt.

[Dave2]

no not that kind the boom kind. Yes the TSA has now said that they think terrorists will implant bombs to get through security. I can only imagine what the TSA checkpoints will look like now
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/06/bomb.i ... ?hpt=hp_t2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought the pornoscanners were supposed to detect things like bombs in pants and bomb implants. If not, what do they do, other than bombarding our DNA with radiation? Now I know how the test subjects in the Tuskegee syphilis study felt.

Nope. They detect, um, maybe tattoos? Both the scanners and the "enhanced" pat-downs came out of the underwear bomber, but the TSA freely admitted that neither of their new schemes that they designed to combat the underwear bomb would've actually detected the underwear bomb. I recall a bunch of people asking them what the point was, and the TSA giving a kinda non-commital wishy-washy answer that pretty much amounted to "because we can".

[Dragonfighter]

RE: Israeli Style profiling.

It has been admitted that neither back scatter irradiation or groping would have stopped things like the underwear bomber and plastic knives. We all know that Israeli security is effective and not (normally) as invasive. My economical and effective procedure would be good ol' magnetometers, trained observers watching people for behavioral "red flags" and a couple of K-9s cruising the lines. Magnetometer step one, observers watching the whole process. Dogs walk the line, if magnetometer, dog or observer hits on someone THEN they get "extra" screening. IMHO, this would be non-invasive, not terribly inconvenient and effective.

[TexasGal]

They are learning dogs can be trained to detect cancer inside the body of a human being and the dog does not bombard you with radiation to find it. I don't see why they could not be trained to find humans with explosives inside them. A dog does not care who you are or where you were born. I'd far rather have a dog sniff me than the TSA agent groping me. Dogs are used every day for detecting things people hide. They also don't cost what one of these scanners cost and some people would not become filthy rich selling them. Some other people would not be getting their jollies becoming the American Gestapo.

One other point that comes to mind is the "security" the TSA wants us to believe is being achieved flies out the window when flight crews, attendants, and pilots all pass through without being searched day in and day out. They argue they have been background checked and are trustworthy. I say, then all CHL's should be allowed to fly without being searched. Our background check is just as good. I say lets let any flyer volunteer to get background checked if time allows before flying and then allow them to fly unmolested. How about even annual background checks for frequent fliers? How frequently are pilots background checked? If it's good enough for the guy flying the plane, it's good enough for any other citizen too. Why not? I am pretty sure the TSA would say..."Well, someone could be coerced, have their family held hostage, etc"... Exactly! That's why it is ridiculous to let anyone though unsearched if your premise is it has to happen to ensure the safety of the flying public.

[sjfcontrol]

They are learning dogs can be trained to detect cancer inside the body of a human being and the dog does not bombard you with radiation to find it. I don't see why they could not be trained to find humans with explosives inside them. A dog does not care who you are or where you were born. I'd far rather have a dog sniff me than the TSA agent groping me. Dogs are used every day for detecting things people hide. They also don't cost what one of these scanners cost and some people would not become filthy rich selling them. Some other people would not be getting their jollies becoming the American Gestapo.

One other point that comes to mind is the "security" the TSA wants us to believe is being achieved flies out the window when flight crews, attendants, and pilots all pass through without being searched day in and day out. They argue they have been background checked and are trustworthy. I say, then all CHL's should be allowed to fly without being searched. Our background check is just as good. I say lets let any flyer volunteer to get background checked if time allows before flying and then allow them to fly unmolested. How about even annual background checks for frequent fliers? How frequently are pilots background checked? If it's good enough for the guy flying the plane, it's good enough for any other citizen too. Why not? I am pretty sure the TSA would say..."Well, someone could be coerced, have their family held hostage, etc"... Exactly! That's why it is ridiculous to let anyone though unsearched if your premise is it has to happen to ensure the safety of the flying pulic.

I agree with what you said. But it occurs to me that it is rather pointless to search the pilot for bombs or other destructive devises. If the pilot wants to destroy the plane, he is in a position to do so without requiring any external equipment.

[Excaliber]

RE: Israeli Style profiling.

It has been admitted that neither back scatter irradiation or groping would have stopped things like the underwear bomber and plastic knives. We all know that Israeli security is effective and not (normally) as invasive. My economical and effective procedure would be good ol' magnetometers, trained observers watching people for behavioral "red flags" and a couple of K-9s cruising the lines. Magnetometer step one, observers watching the whole process. Dogs walk the line, if magnetometer, dog or observer hits on someone THEN they get "extra" screening. IMHO, this would be non-invasive, not terribly inconvenient and effective.

It would be fast, effective, efficient, and cheaper, too.

You now have four good reasons why you'll never see it under the current administration.

Elections have consequences.

[Gyrogearhead]

I agree with what you said. But it occurs to me that it is rather pointless to search the pilot for bombs or other destructive devises. If the pilot wants to destroy the plane, he is in a position to do so without requiring any external equipment.

Does anyone remember that Egypt Air flight that crashed into the Atlantic about 15 years ago off the coast of Labridor when the co-pilot drove it at a very steep angle into the ocean? Egyptian government officials cried long and loud that a Muslem could never kill innocent people until the voice recorder and black box were retrieved weeks afterward and showed clearly that the co-pilot did it intentionally. As I recall the man had a wife and several children back in Egypt and no previous indication that he was a ticking time bomb.

Gerry

[tacticool]

It would be fast, effective, efficient, and cheaper, too.

You now have four good reasons why you'll never see it under the current administration.

Elections have consequences.

Which elections? Bush and his herd of RINOS were doing pretty much the same thing before Obama took his place. The inconvenient truth is neither R nor D has obeyed the constitution for a long time, and We The People have allowed domestic enemies of the constitution to keep abusing their positions of power.

[VoiceofReason]

"Terrorists could replicate a cosmetic device, such as a breast or buttock implant".

Butt bombs??

[Dragonfighter]

"Terrorists could replicate a cosmetic device, such as a breast or buttock implant".

Butt bombs??

We have those at the station.