TABC Proposed Rule Change and Impact on Guns Shows and Gun O

[MasterOfNone]

a requirement that firearms be disabled and not readily convertible for use

Isn't a zip-tied gun readily convertible for use? I can't imagine any non-permanent modification that would not be readily convertible.

Removal of the firing pin.

That only works if the intent is to sell guns without providing firing pins.

???
Since they can't deliver the guns at the show, they would be able to install the pins before delivery. Duh.

Sorry I posted a "duh"-worthy response. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I find few bargains on new guns at shows, so their primary value to me is used guns. However, if I am buying a used gun, I want to see all the parts for which I am paying. So even if I am OK with having the gun delivered elsewhere, I am not buying it under the condition that a firing pin of unknown condition is coming with it.
Hopefully that response is worthy of at least a "whatever."

[sjfcontrol]

a requirement that firearms be disabled and not readily convertible for use

Isn't a zip-tied gun readily convertible for use? I can't imagine any non-permanent modification that would not be readily convertible.

Removal of the firing pin.

That only works if the intent is to sell guns without providing firing pins.

???
Since they can't deliver the guns at the show, they would be able to install the pins before delivery. Duh.

Sorry I posted a "duh"-worthy response. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I find few bargains on new guns at shows, so their primary value to me is used guns. However, if I am buying a used gun, I want to see all the parts for which I am paying. So even if I am OK with having the gun delivered elsewhere, I am not buying it under the condition that a firing pin of unknown condition is coming with it.
Hopefully that response is worthy of at least a "whatever."

Whatever... (Sorry about the "duh", the devil made me do it!)
When you're buying a used gun, how do you check-out the firing pin? At most only the very tip is visible -- though I suppose that's the most important part.

[Excaliber]

I don't doubt this was requested by a show. Look how many post 30.06 signs.

Not likely. The new provisions would cripple the gun shows. It's more likely that a gun club requested the change but didn't realize what the ramifications would be.

I'm not buying the whole premise of a gun club requesting this.

First of all, who but a full blown alcoholic would think it's a good idea in the first place, let alone one good enough to request TABC action on it?

Secondly, to see TABC move raipidly on a single "gun club request" that has no support from the rest of the state is itself cause for suspicion. Government agencies don't move rapidly at all, even on legitimate and urgent matters. Seeing this move forward is not business as usual.

The way they propose to go about implementing it is far from innocent - it is right out of the antis playbook as a way to kill gun shows by making them unprofitable for dealers and unattractive to attendees.

I think this merits further investigation - like a FOIA request to see the original request that supposedly got this started. A look into the identity of the originator of that request, if it exists, would be illuminating.

[carlson1]

100%

[Bladed]

I don't doubt this was requested by a show. Look how many post 30.06 signs.

Not likely. The new provisions would cripple the gun shows. It's more likely that a gun club requested the change but didn't realize what the ramifications would be.

I'm not buying the whole premise of a gun club requesting this.

First of all, who but a full blown alcoholic would think it's a good idea in the first place, let alone one good enough to request TABC action on it?

Secondly, to see TABC move raipidly on a single "gun club request" that has no support from the rest of the state is itself cause for suspicion. Government agencies don't move rapidly at all, even on legitimate and urgent matters. Seeing this move forward is not business as usual.

The way they propose to go about implementing it is far from innocent - it is right out of the antis playbook as a way to kill gun shows by making them unprofitable for dealers and unattractive to attendees.

I think this merits further investigation - like a FOIA request to see the original request that supposedly got this started. A look into the identity of the originator of that request, if it exists, would be illuminating.

If it's a conspiracy, it's a conspiracy of about three people (e.g., some city council member called up his buddy at TABC and said, "Bill, we're having a heck of a time finding a loophole that'll let us shut down this local gun show, but it occurs to me that all of the local venues have beverage licenses, and I was thinking that maybe y'all could help us put a little pressure on them"). The type of massive conspiracy that everyone likes to opine about is almost non-existent in the real world--it's too easy for such plots to unravel and come back to bite the person who started them (loose lips and all that). And there is DEFINITELY not a widespread conspiracy in the executive branch of the Texas government to shut down gun shows (talk about political suicide). Both sides of the issue are getting a lot of mileage out of this thing, but it's just as likely typical government stupidity/incompetence as anything else. If it is a plot against gun shows, it's a very small one.

[G.A. Heath]

1. When was the last time you were at a gun show that was not hosted at a location licensed by TABC?
2. Do any Gun Show venues exist that do not have a TABC license?
3. What can a governor do to reign this in?

[sjfcontrol]

I have to wonder if anybody has actually read the proposed regulations. I've read at least part of it, and as near as I can tell, those rules regarding no ammo and disabled firearms ONLY applies if alcohol is available. If no alcohol is being served/sold, then there is no issue.

Feel free to correct me if i've misread or misunderstood the proposal. It's not exactly an easy read.

[gljjt]

I have to wonder if anybody has actually read the proposed regulations. I've read at least part of it, and as near as I can tell, those rules regarding no ammo and disabled firearms ONLY applies if alcohol is available. If no alcohol is being served/sold, then there is no issue.

Feel free to correct me if i've misread or misunderstood the proposal. It's not exactly an easy read.

That is the way I read it as well.

[TexasCajun]

I have to wonder if anybody has actually read the proposed regulations. I've read at least part of it, and as near as I can tell, those rules regarding no ammo and disabled firearms ONLY applies if alcohol is available. If no alcohol is being served/sold, then there is no issue.

Feel free to correct me if i've misread or misunderstood the proposal. It's not exactly an easy read.

That what the proposal states. But the gun shows don't run the concession stands. Currently, alcohol sales are suspended prior to, during, and after the gun show. This new change could allow the venue to decide to sell alcohol and thus enact the ridiculous provisions.

[AF-Odin]

REALLY-REALLY bad idea. This has all the earmarks of a false flag operation by the anti's. I can hear them now that all the "Bubbas that go to gun shows just to swill beer and trade unregistered guns." Playing right into their hands. Also the above comments about a back door way to shut down gun shows.

Contact your State Rep and politely request that they ask TABC what is going on. Also contact TABC on their request for comment.

[gljjt]

I have to wonder if anybody has actually read the proposed regulations. I've read at least part of it, and as near as I can tell, those rules regarding no ammo and disabled firearms ONLY applies if alcohol is available. If no alcohol is being served/sold, then there is no issue.

Feel free to correct me if i've misread or misunderstood the proposal. It's not exactly an easy read.

That what the proposal states. But the gun shows don't run the concession stands. Currently, alcohol sales are suspended prior to, during, and after the gun show. This new change could allow the venue to decide to sell alcohol and thus enact the ridiculous provisions.

OK, now I get it.

[TexasCajun]

The end of the press release gives the following contact information:

Comments may be submitted in writing to Martin Wilson, Assistant General Counsel, Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, at P.O. Box 13127, Austin, Texas 78711-3127 or by fax to (512) 206-3280. They may also be submitted via e-mail.

The official 30-day comment period ends on Monday, September 8, 2014.

Contact: Carolyn Beck, Director of Communications, 512-206-3347 or carolyn.beck@tabc.state.tx.us

[JSThane]

Forgive me if I mis-read this, but wouldn't it shut down any/all firearm and ammo sales at the venue if the venue (or a vendor renting space there) has an alcohol license, -even if no alcohol was being sold during the show, and/or the alcohol vendor was closed during the show-?

[sjfcontrol]

Forgive me if I mis-read this, but wouldn't it shut down any/all firearm and ammo sales at the venue if the venue (or a vendor renting space there) has an alcohol license, -even if no alcohol was being sold during the show, and/or the alcohol vendor was closed during the show-?

Not as I read it.

[ELB]

Forgive me if I mis-read this, but wouldn't it shut down any/all firearm and ammo sales at the venue if the venue (or a vendor renting space there) has an alcohol license, -even if no alcohol was being sold during the show, and/or the alcohol vendor was closed during the show-?

Not as I read it.

That's exactly how I read it, looking at the "Gun Rule - Discussion" on the TABC page here: http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/gun_ru ... ussion.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I still can't get the pdf to download properly.

Looking at just Gun Shows:

The current rule says if there is a gun show, no sale or consumption of alcohol.

The new rule says if it is a licensed premises, then no ammo, no delivery of purchased guns, and no operable guns. Period. There's no provision for "disregard all that if you ban the drinking." It shifts the rule compliance from the alcohol licensee to the gun show operator, and makes it far more restrictive -- not to mention essentially gutting the major activities of a gun show.

Also, gun shows can only be held "occasionally". That's an unnecessary restriction and gives way too much latitude to the regulators. Is one gun show a month scheduled for the next year "occasionally"? I'll bet not.

The TABC's press release says the new rules kick in only if consumption and sales are allowed, but the actual proposed rules on the page the press release points to does not. If they meant for the new rules to be added rather than replacing the current ones, they should be a whole lot clearer about this.

I'm still highly suspicious.