ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

[Rafe]

Five days and counting until the enforcement date.

Lot of conversation recently about the rules regarding constructive possession. And it helps not at all that BATFE director Dettelbach stated under oath to congress on April 26 that removing the brace from a pistol was enough, that the brace did not have to be rendered unusable (i.e., destroyed). Then on May 22 or 23 the BATFE sends a reminder/primer to FFLs that pretty much contradicts Dettelbach's testimony.

Two videos below. The first is from the 23rd and includes actual video of Dettelbach's testimony plus the communication to FFLs. The second, from the 24th, is from "the Armed Attorneys" diving into the constructive possession issue.

[mayor]

Not only are the unelected burearcrats and the agencies they occupy, corrupt, their decisions reflect just how corrupt they are.
"They're not sending their best." -- DJT

[Paladin]

FPC sent an email stating that FPC members are covered by the injunction.

There is also an injunction by the SAF:

SAF WINS PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION IN ARM BRACE RULE CHALLENGE

“The Court grants in part the Motion and issues a preliminary injunction as to Plaintiffs in this case only"

I'm a member of both

[Paladin]

Updates on the legal battle:

[Rafe]

Updates on the legal battle:

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

[Paladin]

GOA, GOF, State of Texas Secure Preliminary Injunction Against Biden Pistol Brace Ban

This evening, Judge Drew B. Tipton issued a preliminary injunction against the Biden Pistol Brace Ban in a lawsuit brought by Gun Owners of America (GOA), the Gun Owners Foundation (GOF), and the State of Texas. This injunction applies to all members of Gun Owners of America and individuals employed directly by the State of Texas or its agencies.

[Grayling813]

GOA, GOF, State of Texas Secure Preliminary Injunction Against Biden Pistol Brace Ban

This evening, Judge Drew B. Tipton issued a preliminary injunction against the Biden Pistol Brace Ban in a lawsuit brought by Gun Owners of America (GOA), the Gun Owners Foundation (GOF), and the State of Texas. This injunction applies to all members of Gun Owners of America and individuals employed directly by the State of Texas or its agencies.

Weird...seems like the State of Texas would be seeking relief for it's citizens, not its employees.

[powerboatr]

Updates on the legal battle:

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

this made me wonder...does law enforcement frequent your local range to SEE what people have???
our range has one day a month for local police to practice and "STUFF" and range is closed during those 4 hrs, you can watch...just no firing line setup or shooting

other than that LEO are never there. but in some cities i guess it would be an easy picking day for leos

[Paladin]

Updates on the legal battle:

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

this made me wonder...does law enforcement frequent your local range to SEE what people have???
our range has one day a month for local police to practice and "STUFF" and range is closed during those 4 hrs, you can watch...just no firing line setup or shooting

other than that LEO are never there. but in some cities i guess it would be an easy picking day for leos

I've shot around LEO's at various ranges. Its more the range nazi's I would worry about. Like DFW Shooting Range where they would actively stop people from shouldering braces, etc.

[powerboatr]

Updates on the legal battle:

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

this made me wonder...does law enforcement frequent your local range to SEE what people have???
our range has one day a month for local police to practice and "STUFF" and range is closed during those 4 hrs, you can watch...just no firing line setup or shooting

other than that LEO are never there. but in some cities i guess it would be an easy picking day for leos

I've shot around LEO's at various ranges. Its more the range nazi's I would worry about. Like DFW Shooting Range where they would actively stop people from shouldering braces, etc.

range KARENS i get it.

[Rafe]

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

this made me wonder...does law enforcement frequent your local range to SEE what people have???
our range has one day a month for local police to practice and "STUFF" and range is closed during those 4 hrs, you can watch...just no firing line setup or shooting

other than that LEO are never there. but in some cities i guess it would be an easy picking day for leos

I agree about the "Range Karens." And, quite honestly, I wouldn't be particularly concerned about the local, county, and even many of the Texas State LEOs jumping at the opportunity to demand NFA paperwork from somebody with an AR pistol...at least, not if they aren't shouldering it and peppering targets using a foregrip and other such add-ons. I wouldn't bet a felony arrest on it, though.

But in answer to LEOs frequenting the ranges I go to, yes; absolutely. You don't always know they're law enforcement because typically they're there shooting/training independently, not under the auspices of their department or precinct. The ranges do periodically have times blocked off for that purpose. But I gotta tell ya, it's the LEOs I've met over the years who actively practice on their own and do stuff like shoot IDPA/USPSA that I want showing up to an active scene. In most cases--and I don't want to over-generalize--I've seen a cavernous difference between LEOs who seriously train independently and the ones who simply want to get through the mandatory qualifying for the year.

But thinking back to one of the ranges, the now-closed Hot Wells Shooting Range (the property was officially listed for sale last February), they had a separate (short) range near the entrance for LEOs. I was allowed to shoot there since I'd passed several quals with the range instructors. But because it was a drop-in-anytime small range area dedicated to LEOs, I met folks ranging from uniformed county deputies to plain-clothes DEA and ATF. If I had an AR pistol with a brace on it, I wouldn't be pulling it out regardless...but certainly not if I had any inkling that some of LEOs might be federal.

[The Annoyed Man]

The rate of noncompliance is very encouraging: https://thereload.com/atf-says-a-quarte ... race-rule/

The ATF told The Reload on Friday it has received just over a quarter million applications to register pistol-brace-equipped firearms.

<——SNIP——>

That number represents just a fraction of the braced guns believed to have been sold in the decade since the ATF first classified a version as outside the scope of the NFA. In the impact assessment for the rule, the ATF estimated that three to seven million devices exist. However, the Congressional Research Service puts the number much higher at somewhere between 10 and 40 million.

That puts the registration rate for pistol-brace-equipped guns at between 0.6 percent and eight percent.

I’d wager that the compliance numbers for bump stocks are similar.

[powerboatr]

TL;DR: We're likely to win this battle...eventually. But the new rule went into effect at 00:00 today and even if you're an FPC member in Texas whose membership was active prior to their filing the injunction, don't take your pistol-with-brace combo to the range because you very well still might be arrested and have to defend your position.

From what I've seen so far, all plaintiffs who have filed, including GOA, are wanting the best possible chance at receiving an injunction for relief so they've kept the scope of the filings very narrow. But it's eventually going to take a case that addresses all owners of pistol braces who, for a decade, had been assured by the ATF that they were legal. And that might mean it will have to go to SCOTUS...and if so, we may not get this 2nd Amendment overreach overturned until 2025.

this made me wonder...does law enforcement frequent your local range to SEE what people have???
our range has one day a month for local police to practice and "STUFF" and range is closed during those 4 hrs, you can watch...just no firing line setup or shooting

other than that LEO are never there. but in some cities i guess it would be an easy picking day for leos

I agree about the "Range Karens." And, quite honestly, I wouldn't be particularly concerned about the local, county, and even many of the Texas State LEOs jumping at the opportunity to demand NFA paperwork from somebody with an AR pistol...at least, not if they aren't shouldering it and peppering targets using a foregrip and other such add-ons. I wouldn't bet a felony arrest on it, though.

But in answer to LEOs frequenting the ranges I go to, yes; absolutely. You don't always know they're law enforcement because typically they're there shooting/training independently, not under the auspices of their department or precinct. The ranges do periodically have times blocked off for that purpose. But I gotta tell ya, it's the LEOs I've met over the years who actively practice on their own and do stuff like shoot IDPA/USPSA that I want showing up to an active scene. In most cases--and I don't want to over-generalize--I've seen a cavernous difference between LEOs who seriously train independently and the ones who simply want to get through the mandatory qualifying for the year.

But thinking back to one of the ranges, the now-closed Hot Wells Shooting Range (the property was officially listed for sale last February), they had a separate (short) range near the entrance for LEOs. I was allowed to shoot there since I'd passed several quals with the range instructors. But because it was a drop-in-anytime small range area dedicated to LEOs, I met folks ranging from uniformed county deputies to plain-clothes DEA and ATF. If I had an AR pistol with a brace on it, I wouldn't be pulling it out regardless...but certainly not if I had any inkling that some of LEOs might be federal.

our range is limited to 287 members, ( city thing) anyway i know by face probably 80%.
whats good about our member rolls , is we list occupation and hobbies .. plus its almost a good ol boy club, everyone knows everyone's business and family
we have 4 police right now. we are not taking new members unless somebody dies or does not re-up
the 4 that are leo, are pretty straight forward and very personable, ( i would not be flashing anything might be questionable)
these folks hang out, shoot and carry on like the rest of us. i would hate to know if one of them "set" someone up , but its possible
it would most likely not go over well with management

i can say at our range, over the last 7 years i have been a member.. i could count on one finger the number of people that have been "talked to" by management for violations. Its really a good range as far as the membership we even have people that sweep up the firing line of spent brass when they are done.

[Rafe]

The rate of noncompliance is very encouraging: https://thereload.com/atf-says-a-quarte ... race-rule/

The ATF told The Reload on Friday it has received just over a quarter million applications to register pistol-brace-equipped firearms.

<——SNIP——>

That puts the registration rate for pistol-brace-equipped guns at between 0.6 percent and eight percent.

If we could ever actually know the numbers--which we can't--we should have an over/under pool. My guess is that the real number is less than 1.5%.

I also wonder, A) How many pistol brace owners never even learned about the new ruling and deadline? I mean, I never saw it on the mainstream media anywhere except two brief instances on Fox News. If there are, realistically, 20 million out there, ya gotta think that only a minority would be actively engaged on a gun forum or following YouTubers who delved into this. And, B) I wonder how many people simply removed the brace and put it someplace--temporarily--where it isn't likely to run afoul of any "inchoate crime," "constructive intent" stuff? And they did so with the guess that this rule will be overturned eventually and the brace can just go back on the pistol later.

In the end, the only thing this ATF overreach is going to do is spend taxpayers' money, cause significant time and cost to make its way through the courts, and create a much smaller addition to their firearm owner registry than they thought it would.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

But in answer to LEOs frequenting the ranges I go to, yes; absolutely. You don't always know they're law enforcement because typically they're there shooting/training independently, not under the auspices of their department or precinct. The ranges do periodically have times blocked off for that purpose. But I gotta tell ya, it's the LEOs I've met over the years who actively practice on their own and do stuff like shoot IDPA/USPSA that I want showing up to an active scene. In most cases--and I don't want to over-generalize--I've seen a cavernous difference between LEOs who seriously train independently and the ones who simply want to get through the mandatory qualifying for the year.

This has been my experience also.