obamacare upheld

[The Annoyed Man]

I travel a lot for work, all over the US and Canada.

In the US, one thing I've noticed over the last 12-18 months talking to my customers is the absolute certainty that the United States is headed for either another revolution or a second civil war. No matter the political leanings of my customers (who, strangely, have been overwhelmingly conservative or libertarian, even in Canada) they all believe this. Almost all of my US customers state if either a revolution happens, or Texas secedes, they will all pack up and move to Texas, as this is seen as the best place to be in either event. I would say 95% of my customers have flat out told me if Texas secedes, they will drop everything and move here the next day.

In fact, on my flight home yesterday there was a couple from Pennsylvania who were coming to Dallas because they bought some land here to retire on. When I asked them why they bought land in Texas the husband said "The tax situation, no snow, and when the revolution comes Texas is where I want to be."

I believe this speaks volumes as to the confidence the average American has in our current Federal government.

As a side note, my Canadian customers - almost to a person - have told me that we Americans should fight socialized medicine with everything we have. Very few of them love their health care system.

Kythas, your customers are expressing a very common viewpoint these days. There has always been talk of revolution and succession going back to the original Revolution, coming from a disgruntled fringe of society on either side. The difference these days is that you are hearing such talk from larger and larger numbers of people who are increasingly from the mainstream of society. The fringe elements from the past were often possessed of kind of cultic ideas about their own role in a post revolutionary world. But these days, you've got IT people, soccer moms, pastors, cops, insurance salesmen, and lawyers, among others, who are feeling not so much like they would like to start a rebellion against the government, but rather like they are being pushed into one by that government. They don't want to initiate one, but they are feeling like it may be thrust upon them by an out of control, grasping, overarching government which has forgotten that it governs at the pleasure of the people.

That's a huge difference: seeking revolution like the ever-present fringe versus the feeling of being pushed to that point like so many in the mainstream today. The sheer blindness of the left's deliberate unwillingness to believe that this is what they've done is appalling. But as I have posted many times, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[recaffeination]

You may not like it but he's right. Conservatves constantly compromising is how we got into the mess were in today.

Consider this. JFK was a Democrat but he was more right wing than any POTUS in the past twenty years. Democrat or Republican.

[57Coastie]

...In over 30 years in the tech industry, most people I've known are definitely on the right. ...As I see it, engineers and programmers are logical thinkers, and therefore tend toward conservatism.

I love these two sentences.

The first one reminds me of an encounter I had the day after Obama was elected to be our President. It was very hot and muggy down on the beach, and I stopped at my favorite Dairy Queen for a dish of what Dairy Queen calls ice cream. I was waited on by a charming black waitress, with whom I had in the past had several interesting discussions. She served me and then Billy Bob and Bubba in the booth next to mine (this is indeed how they addressed each other). As she handed Billy Bob his hamburger he exclaimed to Bubba, loud enough that all might hear, "I can't understand how that (beep-beep) got elected. I don't know one person who voted for him." Bubba responded, "Same here."

The waitress looked over at me, her regular smile undisturbed, and we exchanged private winks.

I make no accusations, sjfcontrol, against anyone other than Billy Bob and Bubba and their like. I think you know that you only offered me the opportunity to tell a story. We have chatted before without a problem. Similarly, for all hands, I would never equate conservatism with racism.

As to the second sentence, yours truly practiced the professional engineer's profession for 44 years before his retirement.

Jim

[The Annoyed Man]

You may not like it but he's right. Conservatves constantly compromising is how we got into the mess were in today.

Consider this. JFK was a Democrat but he was more right wing than any POTUS in the past twenty years. Democrat or Republican.

This is exactly the point I was making, which is why I mentioned Kennedy earlier.

Progressives don't compromise. Conservatives do (or have until now) because we desire an orderly society. Progressives are bullies and they don't give a darn about order (witness the OWS movement). This has resulted in an ever increasingly "progressive" society. Fair play alone demands that the shoe move to the other foot—although fairness has never been the hallmark of progressivism. Let progressives compromise for the the next 10 decades. Maybe we can restore some sanity this way. I've been accused of demonizing others. I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm not compromising anymore.

[tacticool]

...Mitt Romney was the Governor of MASSACHUSETTS, not Texas, or Arizona or even Michigan...MASSACHUSETTS...that is an EXTREMELY LIBERAL state...

You're right and despite that, some conservatives try to pretend a vote for Romney isn't exactly the kind of compromise that resulted in the government we have today. Whether you admit it to yourself or not, a compromise vote is a vote for Obamacare.

[Heartland Patriot]

...Mitt Romney was the Governor of MASSACHUSETTS, not Texas, or Arizona or even Michigan...MASSACHUSETTS...that is an EXTREMELY LIBERAL state...

You're right and despite that, some conservatives try to pretend a vote for Romney isn't exactly the kind of compromise that resulted in the government we have today. Whether you admit it to yourself or not, a compromise vote is a vote for Obamacare.

I want you to tell me what it is that I, Heartland Patriot, can do THIS YEAR to ensure that the Glorious Leader leaves office, without compromising conservative principles? I do not want to hear any platitudes or boilerplate...I want an ACTION PLAN, or some sort of concrete steps, that I can take THIS YEAR. I am open to suggestions, lets hear them.

[Heartland Patriot]

For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

[tacticool]

Sure. If everyone who says they're against Obama would vote for a real conservative, that conservative would easily beat both Obama and Romney.

I'm sure someone will lie and say I'm wasting my vote, but their smoke and mirrors don't change the truth. Voting for compromise candidates in the past CAUSED the mess we're in today and voting for compromise candidates this year is a vote to continue the mess.

Now that you know the truth, the consequences of your vote are on you.

[Heartland Patriot]

Sure. If everyone who says they're against Obama would vote for a real conservative, that conservative would easily beat both Obama and Romney.

I'm sure someone will lie and say I'm wasting my vote, but their smoke and mirrors don't change the truth. Voting for compromise candidates in the past CAUSED the mess we're in today and voting for compromise candidates this year is a vote to continue the mess.

Now that you know the truth, the consequences of your vote are on you.

So, you have a plan to get Ron Paul the nomination? I'm going to take a guess and say that is who you would like to see as President. Fine, I'll vote for him, IF he is the Republican nominee. Otherwise, you are WASTING YOUR VOTE. If you think that will hasten the collapse of the system, to let the Glorious Leader have another four years, maybe you are correct...but it won't be in YOUR lifetime, unless you are younger than I am and I'm in my 40s. The Soviet Union was perhaps the WORST system ever, and yet it managed to go on for 70 odd years with multiple active enemies against them...so, in the end, allowing the Glorious Leader another four years just results in more suffering and misery for more people as he and his cronies crook right along...

[tacticool]

It must be frustrating to spend so much time and effort building up a straw man when nobody takes a swing.

[Heartland Patriot]

Tacticool, there was no "straw man". All I got from you was what I figured I'd get: platitudes and some vague notions about everyone voting for the most conservative candidate (which is who then?). "John Galt" is NOT coming to save us. Did you attempt to SERIOUSLY answer my question? Of course not...you merely want a reason to complain, without offering any method of getting us out of the mess we are currently in. Its very easy to say neat little things like "straw man"...but a lot harder to come up with some kind of actual, concrete, real-world, workable solution. I'll readily admit that I don't have all the answers, which is why I will go vote for Mitt Romney because I believe it at least takes us away from the edge of the cliff we are on. I've said before that he's not my ideal candidate, but COMPARED to the guy occupying the office at the moment, he's the lesser of the evils by a million miles...so, stay on your high horse and continue to spit out boilerplate phrases...but its not helping at all.

[tacticool]

No offense taken. Conservatives have been doing it your way for 20 years or more and the result speaks for itself.

[gdanaher]

Just something to ponder. Y'all are not typical of any group other than Texas CHL holders, and honestly you may not be typical of that group either, because while the number of licenses issued and active is something less than a million, the number of people who are active here is perhaps in the hundreds. How are Texas CHL holders different? They respect the second amendment, they recognize the need for self protection, and they have gone to the extraordinary lengths to train, take classes, and pay fees that many consider exorbitant, in order to exercise their rights in this state. Most people, no, nearly everyone, is less inclined to express their feelings by such an investment of time and treasure.They may spout conservatism but at the end of the day they fail to vote, they fail to think, and they fail to participate. What I get out of these discussions here is a bit of bewilderment on the part of some folks that since you think a certain way, and since many of the other group members think as you do, that the rest of the world is the same. The rest of the world you think of as actively conservative is more likely offering occasional lip service and little more. Honestly, if the majority of 'conservatives' were as intensely active as y'all are, the problems you see in the structure and execution of the government would not exist as a problem for anyone if those 'conservatives' you elected to represent your views had done their job, and performed as requested.

[chasfm11]

Just something to ponder. Y'all are not typical of any group other than Texas CHL holders, and honestly you may not be typical of that group either, because while the number of licenses issued and active is something less than a million, the number of people who are active here is perhaps in the hundreds. How are Texas CHL holders different? They respect the second amendment, they recognize the need for self protection, and they have gone to the extraordinary lengths to train, take classes, and pay fees that many consider exorbitant, in order to exercise their rights in this state. Most people, no, nearly everyone, is less inclined to express their feelings by such an investment of time and treasure.They may spout conservatism but at the end of the day they fail to vote, they fail to think, and they fail to participate. What I get out of these discussions here is a bit of bewilderment on the part of some folks that since you think a certain way, and since many of the other group members think as you do, that the rest of the world is the same. The rest of the world you think of as actively conservative is more likely offering occasional lip service and little more. Honestly, if the majority of 'conservatives' were as intensely active as y'all are, the problems you see in the structure and execution of the government would not exist as a problem for anyone if those 'conservatives' you elected to represent your views had done their job, and performed as requested.

I cannot find a statement about which I more strongly disagree.

1. Some of us are very active in local politics. I personally stood on a street corner and waved a sign for a candidate who, if elected, would not represent me. Why? Because his opponent had been a henchman for Joe Strauss and I viewed her demise as a representative in the Texas House as a huge win for me. Fortunately, we succeeded. She is gone.
2. I, personally, don't expect anyone to act in a Conservative manner. Our society has been so brainwashed by those who have held the power in our education system that I don't expect the average person on the street to understand Conservationism, let alone embrace it. Our schools have been designed to turn out flag waving Liberals and until the basis for that is changed, we are going to get more of the same. Fortunately, again, there has been good progress in breaking the stranglehold that Liberals held on the education (indoctrination) of our young people.
3. The media, in lock step with the lying Liberals, has made it difficult for the average citizen to understand the truth. I'm wrong, eh? Ok. Let's take a poll about the number of tax increases and the resulting escalation of the costs built into Obamacare. I'll bet that not 1 in 10 citizens gets it anywhere near right. Obama laments that the Right did a better job of getting in front of the discussion. Horse pucky. Even after the bill was passed, the voting public will not understand what is going to hit them until it does. By then, it is too late.
4. You and I are in violent agreement that the chief position of most people is bewilderment. I don't care what the topic - Obamacare, 2nd Amendment, DHS - you name it. The facts have been so badly distorted that it is difficult for the most diligent among us has a great deal of difficulty finding the truth. I readily admit that I don't always understand the truth myself. But I've forgiven myself because I fully understand that the term "obfuscation" applies. I'm not supposed to want to understand the truth but down deep, I'm a red pill kind of a guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpill
I vote. I campaign for candidates that I believe in. On the other side are dead voters, obfuscation and Elitism across party lines. I just wish that I could convince more people to take the red pill. That is my mission.

[The Annoyed Man]

For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

Please note that each time I've mentioned it, I have said that this is not a desirable outcome, and that we ought to fear it. Our founders feared it enough to exercise every alternative pleading before the court of King George before they were pushed over the edge by various edicts and General Gage's actions. I. Do. Not. Want. That.

The reason I speak of it is because I am afraid that this is where we are being pushed, and I want progressives and weak-livered republicans and other liberals to get a dang clue before they blow things up with their foolishness.

That is where I am coming from. It worries me.