Armed protestors show up for meeting of Mom's against guns

[G.A. Heath]

I think I got the above protest and the most recent confused. Same answers apply except for the arrests, no arrests were made.

[cw3van]

I still believe these folks are doing nothing but hurting any chance of open carry in Texas just don't understand this in your face type behavior but maybe I'm just getting old.

[Purplehood]

Neither do these guys except maybe to people who chug the Bloomberg koolaid.

So if we don't agree with these asinine tactics we are by default 'chuggers of Bloomberg koolaid'? Didn't any of your professors talk to you about fallacies of logic?

[suthdj]

which was planned first the 2A march or the moms, I see this billed as a rally against the moms but if the march was planned first and the moms showed up just to say they were being rallied against? Anyone know for sure which came first?

[TexasCajun]

In theory, and publicly stated, the purpose is to raise awareness, educate the public, and generate publicity for open carry. In actuallity I suspect its more of a get your cool-kids club card (more difficult to get since the admin here now tends to ban people from specific forums rather than the site over the OC topic*), get arrested if possible (the more times the better), and in general cause some sort of disturbance.

* = Violating the rules to push the OC agenda in their own unique way and get banned from TexasCHLforum.com was a favorite past time of the open carry movement until the last legislative session. Their own unique way included violating nearly every rule the administration of this forum had. After getting banned the violator would go back to which ever forum he was most comfortable in and proclaim "I got banned from the chl forum for talking about open carry..."

--edited to add the above qualification.

So according to this, was the event in question a success? If so, please qualify the achieved goal. If not, what gains (if any) were achieved by this event?

Did they waise awareness of OC? I doubt it. Did they educate the public in anyway? Only that they are looking for a confrontation. Did they generate publicity? Yes, although it looks like it was bad publicity.

So on to what I suspect are the actual goals. Did they get their cool kids card? I don't care. Did any of them get arrested? Looks that way. Did they cause a disturbance? Looks like they caused a minor one.

My suggestions are aimed at preventing the problems they are causing, but I doubt they care.

Interesting that none of the folks that actually support these tactics have weighed in. I've now posed these questions several times in other threads on this forum as well as in other forums, usually with no response at all. My point in repeatedly asking is to show that while these tactics usually generate notice (mostly negative), they obscure the message - even among the proponents. So if the folks supporting and doing this stuff can't articulate their goals, how the heck are the rest of us supposed to get it??? And if we don't get it, how in the world is the unaffiliated public supposed to get it?????

[TexasCajun]

Seems like one weakness our movement has is the reflexive leap to crucify other pro-gun advocates if we don't agree with any aspect of their position.

I can't search and link adequately while on my phone, but there was an analogous counter-protest in Columbus OH about 3-4 months ago. There was an anti-gunner group scheduled a protest and announced on FB. About 6-7 people showed up to support that. Meanwhile, the counter-protest had over 100 people carrying NRA-ILA signs while open carrying handguns and rifles. The news coverage was very favorable about how it had turned into an NRA rally.

I don't think it's the OC position that most of us disagree with. It's the methods that some of these OC groups are using that the rest of see as counter-productive. My opinion is that any kind of protest has a very limited value. If the OC crowd really wants to advance their agenda, they should borrow from the CHL playbook and work on it from the legislative end.

Our state legislature is proven to be willing to consider the issue. But that won't continue to be the case if OCers don't wise up.

[G.A. Heath]

Here's my complete and unbiased thoughts on the matter:

Working on litigation to solve a problem is a VERY dangerous plan that should only be used as a last resort. No one ever knows what will happen in court and it can take decades for a single case to be finalized, expecially if you have to get a ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court (Which is where you have to have a plan plan to go if you are working on a civil rights issue). Juries can make completely random decisions, so can judges. Attornies can loose or win a case in a single moment by using a single word, or looking in a certain manner. It's not fair, but that is the way it is.

Legislative efforts are critical, but can also be time consuming. Additionally your efforts can be destroyed or damaged by people on your side that want to "hurry things up" because it's what they want. So a clear concise plan of action is required with experienced hands at the wheel. The Texas legislative process makes it easier to stop hostile action against your old legislation that passed while potentially making it difficult to get your new legislation passed due since your opponents can defend against just as you fight theirs.

So how do you address issues such as open carry? First you have to educate the public that Open Carry will not be a problem and that it is perfectly safe. Second you have to get enough political capital to get legislation introduced, passed, and signed by the governor, and finally you have to fight to keep it from being repealed or overturned in court. The key to getting political capital when you have none, or limited amounts, is GOOD P.R. If you already have political capital GOOD P.R. will help build up more. The thing about building GOOD P.R. is that you can use efforts to generate it to educate the public.

So lets say I were to organize an opencarry event, what would I do? First I would choose a community service project to take on like a toy drive for the local optimist club, or chamber of commerce (I use this example because the Christmas season is just around the corner). Then I would organize a group of people to work on this project. While we are planning it I would stress they need to wear their sunday best and the first few times we do this we need to keep the open carry of rifles to a minimum (but still have a few on site for the public), with each event that is positive we would have more and more visible open carry. Then when the planning is complete I would contact the local Police Chief and County Sheriff in person and tell them we are performing X, Y, Z on these dates at these locations and we will have some openly carried long guns. Then I would invite them, and their officers (perferably off duty), to not only be present but to participate. I would also attempt to address any concerns or issues they bring up about the event. Once all of that is done I would contact the local and area media and invite them out for two reasons. The first would be to get more PR for the event and bring in more donations/volunteers. The second would be so that we could be seen open carrying doing positive things, even having a positive relationship with law enforcement. During the next legislative session when MDA starts sending every legislator that picture they have of the OC movement I would send legislators news paper clippings, photos, and copies of anything positive from my event(s). Guess who will make the best impression?

[TexasCajun]

You get it, GA. Hope the OCers can get on board with something like what you you've outlined. The only suggestion I have would be to choose the charity event wisely. Anything related to children or family could be spun against by the ultra-libs and unintentionally create bad PR. But the rest is pretty solid.

[VMI77]

If we'd just keep quiet, not bring attention to ourselves, and quit being confrontational, the anti-gunners will leave us alone.

How about instead if you just protest like normal people, with signs and such, and not actively give the antigunners ammunition against all gun owners EVERY TIME YOU SURFACE.

I don't disagree, I just lament the loss of the culture I grew up in where walking down the street with a long gun was not considered suspicious activity.

[mamabearCali]

GA I am with you. I am an open carrier in VA from time to time. This is unhelpful, and possibly destructive. Look these are ladies they are emotional and scared. Now they are more scared and angry to boot. It would have been better to have offered a lesson on how guns work. Education is better than in your face protests.

[Beiruty]

I have an idea. The military usual does open air shows fir the public.
How about an educational open air gun show where the public can come and learn about those cool firearms

[Purplehood]

I have an idea. The military usual does open air shows fir the public.
How about an educational open air gun show where the public can come and learn about those cool firearms

I call those "Gun Shows".

[gdanaher]

Congregating in front of a restaurant where a few contraopinioned women are meeting suggests to the public that the members of this group are whacked out nut jobs. They well might be. It solves no problems and creates new ones, or gets people thinking negative thoughts. Their actions helped no one, and left negative memories in the minds of many, some of whom may be voting on this issue someday.

[Cedar Park Dad]

If we'd just keep quiet, not bring attention to ourselves, and quit being confrontational, the anti-gunners will leave us alone.

How about instead if you just protest like normal people, with signs and such, and not actively give the antigunners ammunition against all gun owners EVERY TIME YOU SURFACE.

I don't disagree, I just lament the loss of the culture I grew up in where walking down the street with a long gun was not considered suspicious activity.

Its still not. You just don't walk a major urban street with them. I could still walk down the road in Hockley with a shotgun and no one would bat an eye. OK thats not correct, the ducks would be very afraid.

[TexasCajun]

If we'd just keep quiet, not bring attention to ourselves, and quit being confrontational, the anti-gunners will leave us alone.

How about instead if you just protest like normal people, with signs and such, and not actively give the antigunners ammunition against all gun owners EVERY TIME YOU SURFACE.

I don't disagree, I just lament the loss of the culture I grew up in where walking down the street with a long gun was not considered suspicious activity.

I don't think there ever was a time where just hanging out with an openly carried long gun was common. I remember pick up trucks with gun racks. I remember guys walking to/from a quick hunt along country roads. But anybody not in hunting gear & not headed somewhere would've most certainly had to explain what they were doing.