TexasCHLforum.com

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 39075.html

Not to flattering article on Houston gun sales. First time I have seen local media single out larger retailers (Academy and Carter's).

Current interpretations of the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, which guarantees the right to bear arms, make such investigations difficult, agents said. Federal law prohibits the government from having a long-term database of weapons or ammunition purchasers.

Almost always, shops that have sold guns later used in crimes have done nothing illegal.

Well, which is it? That pesky second amendment or federal law against "a long-term database"? Obviously if someone is making straw purchases, they are breaking the law... Why not blame them instead of our constitution.

Among the favorite weapons of the cartels is a .223-caliber Bushmaster, which goes for about $1,000 at some Houston gun shops, and can fire rounds capable of piercing body armor.

Hernandez bought five Bushmasters one day in September 2006 from the Carter's Country on Treaschwig Road in Spring.

In addition to the guns Hernandez purchased, the ATF contends he had people working for him, including former Klein Forest High School classmates.

Hernandez is said to have enlisted a 23-year-old former Klein Forest student, who authorities say bought 37 guns for $42,763. His biggest single purchase came on May 12, 2007, when he purchased eight Bushmasters, also from Carter's Country in Spring.

People making straw purchases? People illegally smuggling arms to Mexico? Sounds like these are the folks to go after. I have a feeling they feel it is easier to go after the 2nd amendment and AR's though. Go figure.

"All the weapons the drug syndicates are using in Mexico come across the border from the United States," Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico's ambassador to the United States, said during a visit to the Houston Chronicle.

Well gee, Mr. Ambassador, all of the drugs infecting our youth in Houston come from Mexico. Can you guys work on that? At least the ones illegally buying weapons in Houston for your drug cartels are not bribing government officials to make their illegal activity easier. Maybe you guys should police your on border some. Go figure.

My feelings exactly John!

John wrote:
Well gee, Mr. Ambassador, all of the drugs infecting our youth in Houston come from Mexico. Can you guys work on that? At least the ones illegally buying weapons in Houston for your drug cartels are not bribing government officials to make their illegal activity easier. Maybe you guys should police your on border some. Go figure.

Actually they spend a lot of effort policing the border, its their own internal corruption an the sheer size of the issue that is the problem. I suppose controlling our own children is asking too much. i personally would allow those who wish to poison themselves to do so. The problem might resolve itself. It's the forbidden fruit aspect. Look what happens at the mere mention of restrictions of the AR15 has done.

Hernandez is said to have enlisted a 23-year-old former Klein Forest student, who authorities say bought 37 guns for $42,763. His biggest single purchase came on May 12, 2007, when he purchased eight Bushmasters, also from Carter's Country in Spring.

I'm suprised there were not alarms going off in the heads of the clerk when a 23 yr old kid walked in with $8k+ in cash to buy 8 Bushmasters. I hope the gun store was helping the ATF and made this sale because they were asked to let it go through. Although I believe we should be able to purchase just about anything we want, I don't have a problem with a store owner wanting to know what my intentions are when purchasing firearms by the case. The store owner, after all, does have a vested interest in what happens to them after they walk out of the door. I doubt Carter's in Spring is happy to see this type of publicity. It's not like they need to drum up business...it took me over an hour to check in a rifle to shoot the last time I was there because it was so crowded.

Lodge2004 wrote:
Although I believe we should be able to purchase just about anything we want, I don't have a problem with a store owner wanting to know what my intentions are when purchasing firearms by the case.

I have a problem with that. If they suspect something illegal is taking place, then they should notify the authorities, that is what they are there for. If the purchaser has filled out a 4473 (passed the NICS) and the firearms dealer has no other reason to believe the purchaser is ineligible...then the sale should proceed without further inconvenience. If you have no problem with the vendor ascertaining your "intentions" concerning firearms, then it follows... you wouldn't mind if they asked you about purchasing a case or two of ammo. No Sir, it is none of their business!

The store owner, after all, does have a vested interest in what happens to them after they walk out of the door.

This is akin to saying that car dealerships have a "vested interest" (presumably a liability) in the vehicles they sell....once they leave the lot. Short of someone approaching a salesman and stating: "Hey Bud...I need to buy that panel van over there so I can go rob a bank", I don't think it is the salesperson's (or dealer's) position to establish your "intentions" before selling it to you.

Let the laws (and law enforcement agencies) do their job, that is why we have them. If an inordinate amount of weapons (used in crimes) can be shown (traced back) to have come from one gun store, then an investigation/inquiry would be appropriate.

If the investigating agency can not reasonably prove (or show reason to suspect) that the store owner (or his agents) had knowingly and willingly engaged in an illegal sale, then the matter should be dropped...and the charges concentrated upon the person who actually bought (then illegally traded/sold/transported) the weapons. Lets put the blame and accountability on the person who broke the law.

My mother was talking about this a few months ago. Even my anti-gun, socialist mother (REAL socialist, not what we accuse people of being) sees no problem.

Nitrogen's Anti-gun Mom wrote: That's silly. Guns are legal here. Asking us to change our laws is stupid. Mexico should change their laws to keep prescription drugs out of the country, but it'd be just as dumb."

They are upset about a few thousands guns making it across the border? I wonder how they'd feel about 12 MILLION Americans down there illegally? Maybe we should start an exchange program. 1000 illegal aliens for each gun. It seems that both parties involved would find better border control policies beneficial.

bridge wrote:They are upset about a few thousands guns making it across the border? I wonder how they'd feel about 12 MILLION Americans down there illegally? Maybe we should start an exchange program. 1000 illegal aliens for each gun. It seems that both parties involved would find better border control policies beneficial.

Dear Felipe Calderón,

Let's trade. You send the illegal guns back to Texas and we'll give them good homes here. We'll send the illegal aliens back to Mexico and you can find them good homes there.

Feliz Navidad.

Love,
Texas

Liberty wrote:

John wrote:
Well gee, Mr. Ambassador, all of the drugs infecting our youth in Houston come from Mexico. Can you guys work on that? At least the ones illegally buying weapons in Houston for your drug cartels are not bribing government officials to make their illegal activity easier. Maybe you guys should police your on border some. Go figure.

Actually they spend a lot of effort policing the border, its their own internal corruption an the sheer size of the issue that is the problem. I suppose controlling our own children is asking too much. i personally would allow those who wish to poison themselves to do so. The problem might resolve itself. It's the forbidden fruit aspect. Look what happens at the mere mention of restrictions of the AR15 has done.

I understand what you are saying Liberty. I'm just pointing out that his argument goes both ways. The illegal drugs here come mostly from Mexico and Mexico’s internal corruption aids in them in getting drugs here. I do not see that same level of corruption in the US helping to get guns to Mexico. For the second part, that can be turned around too... I suppose controlling your own citizens is asking too much, regarding illegal gun usage and even drug cartels. On forbidden fruits… we’ll disagree on that one. I really don’t want to see pot, cocaine, crack, crank and the many other illegal drugs on the local Walgreens shelf. Don’t see any benefit to our kids on that one. We have alcohol readily available, why give ourselves more vises. Speaking for myself and others that I know, the illegality of drugs made the difference between potential addition and maturity when it came to drugs.

You know maybe they should talk more about guns in the hands of the Drug cartells . Would be nice if they started talking more about Los Zetas and how they are dirupting life. Oh wait forgot the new Soros agenda no more guns not even to protect your self from people who want to do you harm. I guess if we don't talk about the bad guys they really aren't there.

According to Soros, the middle ages were peaceful. No guns.

subsonic wrote:

bridge wrote:They are upset about a few thousands guns making it across the border? I wonder how they'd feel about 12 MILLION Americans down there illegally? Maybe we should start an exchange program. 1000 illegal aliens for each gun. It seems that both parties involved would find better border control policies beneficial.

Dear Felipe Calderón,

Let's trade. You send the illegal guns back to Texas and we'll give them good homes here. We'll send the illegal aliens back to Mexico and you can find them good homes there.

Feliz Navidad.

Love,
Texas

LOL..that's the best thing I've seen in a long time.
Wish it was possible.
JL

Is the press trying to play the liability-card again?

I never could figure out how the whole issue of liability works.

Bartenders in some states have to quit serving people that appear to be drunk.

Liquor-store owners are NOT required to trace buyers of liquor, or question them about their intentions. Drinking and driving KILLS.

Car-dealers ARE required to trace buyers of Automobiles, but do not have to question the buyer about their intentions. Cars kill thousands of people a year.

I too would wonder why some young guy/gal would walk into a store and buy 8 Bushmasters. I might also wonder why that same person would walk into a store and buy 8 cases of Wild Turkey, or 8 Dodge Charger SRT8's. Where do we draw the line?

There is hundreds of millions of dollars spent in the U.S. every year to combat drugs. Ranging from drug education, to Law Enforcement, to Courts, to prisons. How successful is it? Not very.

I recommend we take just one facet of that program and discontinue the rest.

Keep drug education. Emphasize it. Push it.

Then let the rest of these little crackheads and heroin addicts kill themselves off and then there won't be all that problem.


I know, I kow. That is not PC..

Captain Matt wrote:According to Soros, the middle ages were peaceful. No guns.

Really the dudes a nut. Then again every one carried a sword. And those who couldn't afford one traded their coats for one. We also had public execution. I think they treated criminals like criminals then.

But then again it was kinda about world domination two classes of people. Rulers/law makers and people/tax payers . What one would Soros be in? and how high up do you think he would be?? Would Obama be his ?