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A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:16 pm
by stevie_d_64
Make sure you are sitting down, sharp implements are out of reach, no drinking or eating while reading this... ;-)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill would give president emergency control of Internet

by Declan McCullagh

Internet companies and civil liberties groups were alarmed this spring when a U.S. Senate bill proposed handing the White House the power to disconnect private-sector computers from the Internet.

They're not much happier about a revised version that aides to Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, have spent months drafting behind closed doors. CNET News has obtained a copy of the 55-page draft of S.773 (excerpt), which still appears to permit the president to seize temporary control of private-sector networks during a so-called cybersecurity emergency.

The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do what's necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal include a federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private sector be managed by people who have been awarded that license.

"I think the redraft, while improved, remains troubling due to its vagueness," said Larry Clinton, president of the Internet Security Alliance, which counts representatives of Verizon, Verisign, Nortel, and Carnegie Mellon University on its board. "It is unclear what authority Sen. Rockefeller thinks is necessary over the private sector. Unless this is clarified, we cannot properly analyze, let alone support the bill."

Representatives of other large Internet and telecommunications companies expressed concerns about the bill in a teleconference with Rockefeller's aides this week, but were not immediately available for interviews on Thursday.

A spokesman for Rockefeller also declined to comment on the record Thursday, saying that many people were unavailable because of the summer recess. A Senate source familiar with the bill compared the president's power to take control of portions of the Internet to what President Bush did when grounding all aircraft on Sept. 11, 2001. The source said that one primary concern was the electrical grid, and what would happen if it were attacked from a broadband connection.

When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.

The Rockefeller proposal plays out against a broader concern in Washington, D.C., about the government's role in cybersecurity. In May, President Obama acknowledged that the government is "not as prepared" as it should be to respond to disruptions and announced that a new cybersecurity coordinator position would be created inside the White House staff. Three months later, that post remains empty, one top cybersecurity aide has quit, and some wags have begun to wonder why a government that receives failing marks on cybersecurity should be trusted to instruct the private sector what to do.

Rockefeller's revised legislation seeks to reshuffle the way the federal government addresses the topic. It requires a "cybersecurity workforce plan" from every federal agency, a "dashboard" pilot project, measurements of hiring effectiveness, and the implementation of a "comprehensive national cybersecurity strategy" in six months--even though its mandatory legal review will take a year to complete.

The privacy implications of sweeping changes implemented before the legal review is finished worry Lee Tien, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. "As soon as you're saying that the federal government is going to be exercising this kind of power over private networks, it's going to be a really big issue," he says.

Probably the most controversial language begins in Section 201, which permits the president to "direct the national response to the cyber threat" if necessary for "the national defense and security." The White House is supposed to engage in "periodic mapping" of private networks deemed to be critical, and those companies "shall share" requested information with the federal government. ("Cyber" is defined as anything having to do with the Internet, telecommunications, computers, or computer networks.)

"The language has changed but it doesn't contain any real additional limits," EFF's Tien says. "It simply switches the more direct and obvious language they had originally to the more ambiguous (version)...The designation of what is a critical infrastructure system or network as far as I can tell has no specific process. There's no provision for any administrative process or review. That's where the problems seem to start. And then you have the amorphous powers that go along with it."

Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:22 pm
by DoubleJ
When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.
yeah, but who's gonna protect us from them???

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:26 pm
by stevie_d_64
DoubleJ wrote:
When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.
yeah, but who's gonna protect us from them???
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:28 pm
by Mithras61
At last! Something I can agree with Obama! "rlol" :rolll "rlol" :rolll :thewave

Our government is not prepared for cyber-war, cyber-terrorism or any other cyber-. Despite that the Internet was originally developed in conjunction with DARPA, the government has failed to keep up with the pace of developing threats and has failed to adequately secure their network(s) from attack. Given that this is the case, WHY would I want to hand over control from companies/corporations that regularly deal successfully with cyber- threats to a government that has not?

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
by Kythas
Mithras61 wrote:WHY would I want to hand over control from companies/corporations that regularly deal successfully with cyber- threats to a government that has not?
Because obviously government is more effective and efficient than the private sector. Just look at the successful government programs such as......um......wait, it's coming to me.....I'm sure there's one around here somewhere....

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:02 pm
by joe817
Kythas wrote:
Mithras61 wrote:WHY would I want to hand over control from companies/corporations that regularly deal successfully with cyber- threats to a government that has not?
Because obviously government is more effective and efficient than the private sector. Just look at the successful government programs such as......um......wait, it's coming to me.....I'm sure there's one around here somewhere....
"rlol" :smilelol5: :lol: :lol:

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:17 pm
by Jim Lockey
Yes, and they would like to get Fox news off the air. I'm 77 years old and I can never remeber a president and staff with more dumb ideas.

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:50 am
by KD5NRH
World of Warcraft
MySpace
FaceBook
Twitter
Online Texas Hold'em
AIM
ICQ
Hulu
YouTube
Internet porn
Internet shopping
Regular shopping (keep in mind that a lot of merchants order stock online these days)

Take away the new opiates of the masses and see what real unrest looks like when they're all in withdrawal, and they know who's between them and their fix.

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:52 am
by DEADEYE1964
Kythas wrote:
Mithras61 wrote:WHY would I want to hand over control from companies/corporations that regularly deal successfully with cyber- threats to a government that has not?
Because obviously government is more effective and efficient than the private sector. Just look at the successful government programs such as......um......wait, it's coming to me.....I'm sure there's one around here somewhere....

You were thinking of the post office, no wait, that cannot be it, sorry.

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:48 am
by snorri
stevie_d_64 wrote:Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."
If a computer system is "critical" it shouldn't be connected to a public network. Period.

It doesn't matter if that public network is run by corporations, governments, or the Knights of the Circular Object.

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:16 pm
by stevie_d_64
"Would you like to play a nice game of chess?"

No, let's play Global Thermonuclear War...

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:25 pm
by Kythas
KD5NRH wrote:World of Warcraft
MySpace
FaceBook
Twitter
Online Texas Hold'em
AIM
ICQ
Hulu
YouTube
Internet porn
Internet shopping
Regular shopping (keep in mind that a lot of merchants order stock online these days)

Take away the new opiates of the masses and see what real unrest looks like when they're all in withdrawal, and they know who's between them and their fix.
Take away my World of Warcraft, Facebook, XBox Live, and Match.com and you'll see one very unhappy armed man. :cup:

Re: A Texas CHL Forum killer if there ever was one...

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:31 am
by Mithras61
snorri wrote:
stevie_d_64 wrote:Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."
If a computer system is "critical" it shouldn't be connected to a public network. Period.

It doesn't matter if that public network is run by corporations, governments, or the Knights of the Circular Object.
Indeed. In security circles, a system that is connected to any network is by definition not secure. For example, your root certificate server should be taken offline just as quickly as possible (as soon as you get a subordinate up & running, which should be the next order of business after setting up the master...). The only truly secure system is one that is turned off, not plugged into anything and in a vault somewhere (of course, it isn't much use like that...).

Most folks don't realize security is really a matter of degree, not an absolute. It's all trade-offs between security and functionality.