Social Security Isn't An Entitlement

[Abraham]

Recently, on Fox News, Social Security has been referred to as an entitlement.

Given we've no choice but to "invest" in it with earned income, how on earth can it be an entitlement? Yes, there are such things as survivor benefits, but again the benefits for the survivors were "earned" by force of law by the late person.

So how can Social Security be lumped into the unearned trough such as welfare that many undeserving enjoy?

Anyone here know?

[Oldgringo]

Recently, on Fox News, Social Security has been referred to as an entitlement.

Given we've no choice but to "invest" in it with earned income, how on earth can it be an entitlement? Yes, there are such things as survivor benefits, but again the benefits for the survivors were "earned" by force of law by the late person.

So how can Social Security be lumped into the unearned trough such as welfare that many undeserving enjoy?

Anyone here know?

!!! I had no choice but to pay into SS starting with my first job as a 16 year old retail clerk in a department store in Harrisburg, IL some 52 years ago. I was forcd to pay into SS from then until I quit working some half century later. I earned my SS payments the hard way - working!

[sjfcontrol]

So how can Social Security be lumped into the unearned trough such as welfare that many undeserving enjoy?

Remember...

The Government Taketh, and the Government Taketh Away!

(I think that's the way the phrase goes...)

[lonewolf]

If Social Security goes away, I'll be suing the goobers to get back every penny I have put into it. Every penny, plus the interest/income it would have generated had the money been in my hands in the first place.......The truth is that those of us currently paying into the system are paying for those already drawing the money, my view is that it's my money. Either guarantee me the return on investment when I retire, or give me the opportunity to invest/save/spend as I see fit.

Be my luck they'll arbitrarily raise the age I can draw it up so far that I won't live long enough to see much of it anyway......

Perhaps the government should invest in reducing the pork and earmark spending they are so fond of and actually do something constructive for us regular folk. I am certainly not opposed to paying the appropriate taxes to allow the proper operation of the government and defense of the nation and such, but if I ran my household the way the government runs their operations, I would need a major printing facility to print my own currency as well. They should focus on the needs of the people, not public pools for their constituents in neighborhoods where most homes already have pools and absurdities like that.

Why do we contract foreign companies to design bridges in Dallas? Local businesses aren't good enough? Absurd. Foreign companies to reap profits from toll road operations? Ridiculous. I could go on and on, but probably shouldn't. I'll be having my teeth cleaned in an hour or so and they always take my blood pressure first...........

[RHenriksen]

Ponzi schemes are only illegal when they're being run by private individuals, not the gov...

[sjfcontrol]

Ponzi schemes are only illegal when they're being run by private individuals, not the gov...

And the reason they're illegal for individuals is that they are unsustainable in the long run -- unless you can print your own money, of course. Seems the govt. is finally waking up to that fact.

[Rex B]

By definition, it's an entitlement.
The FICA that comes out of your paycheck all those years is just a tax, just like the other federal withholding. The money goes into the general fund, not some "trust fund". And the government gives you a stipend that has no real correlation with what you have paid in.

And yes, I'm counting on it to be there as an important secondary income source in about 8 years.
Sure hope it's there, but I don't have all my eggs in that basket. I sure feel for those that do.

[tacticool]

Recently, on Fox News, Social Security has been referred to as an entitlement.

Given we've no choice but to "invest" in it with earned income, how on earth can it be an entitlement? Yes, there are such things as survivor benefits, but again the benefits for the survivors were "earned" by force of law by the late person.

Are you saying that people aren't entitled to Social Security even if they paid in?

[Abraham]

I appreciate everyone's input, still I don't hear any speculation as to why Social Security is now being referred to as an "Entitlement", which it clearly isn't.

My speculation is: If the public passively accepts this blatant miscategorizing of the Social Security program as just another "Entitlement program" it'll be easier to manipulate.

So far, they seem to be getting away with it.

Even Fox News hasn't had a single pundit stand up and shout: Social Security ISN'T an entitlement!

O.K. that's my speculation. Admittedly, it's a bare bones start, but something's clearly up with this slight of mouth, if you will...

Let's hear it - What's your take on this Orwellian approach to mislead the public?

[74novaman]

You're right, it isn't an entitlement. It is straight robbery.

The govt is pointing a gun at my head, telling me they know better than I do how to plan for my retirement, and taking that money and putting it into their GENERAL FUND.

They're using that money to pay for whatever they need at the moment. There is no govt pension set up somewhere with my name on it. The money is already gone.

If we were so concerned with it, it should have been put into a lockbox for retirement funds, not used for whatever they want to do with it. As far as I'm concerned, its a loss, and we deserve to have that money gone, because we didn't bother to fight how it was appropriated and spent.

You haven't been funding your retirement with your social security taxes. You've been funding our govt. As soon as people realize that and figure out that money is gone, the sooner we can abandon this foolishness, and let people secure their own futures.

[tacticool]

You're both right.

Social Security taxes are straight robbery.
Social Security spending is an entitlement.

While we're on the topic, this tells you how much to trust the government about Social Security.

[Skiprr]

My take is that Rex B is partly correct. In truth, Social Security is actually an insurance program funded by payroll taxes. It isn’t strictly a tax because the FICA withholdings are premiums for a “social insurance” meant to cover, among other things, loss of income from the worker’s retirement, loss of income from disability, worker survivor benefits, etc.

In that sense, it is--and was never intended to be--a trust fund or retirement account for individual workers, and what you and I pay into it are insurance premiums, not an investment instrument. So there is no correlation between your Social Security payment and how much you and your employer actually paid over the course of your working in the form of FICA insurance premiums. Like any insurance, it was designed to spread the risk out among all the insured. So, for example, a worker who becomes disabled in his 30s could receive a much larger cumulative payout over his lifetime than a worker who retires at 65 and lives to 80.

Social Security law is specified in Title 42, Chapter 7 of the U.S. Code. You’ll probably be greatly surprised to see what all benefits from your FICA withholdings.

Fair or not, ultimately Constitutional or not, for us Baby Boomers and our elders, it’s become a huge mess. Money obtained via FICA taxes have been spent at incredible rates in the past years. By dollars piad out, it's the largest government program in the world...and the Boomers are just now starting to reach fully-eligible retirement age. None of them have started taking any appreciable amount yet in retirement payments.

Many of us in our 50s and beyond were counting on some level of retirement insurance to help supplement decreasing earning potential. There were no 401(k) options when we started our careers (and when IRAs first appeared in 1974, the maximum contribution was $1,500, so that didn't add up very fast even if we were prescient and new what would come), and slowly but surely over the decades private companies have almost totally eliminated pension plans. We don't have time to make up for retirement savings we missed out on during our 20s and 30s. But what's being done with the FICA money makes that supplemental income source an uncertain future.

Too, the whole "Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund" looks like an accounting sheme, with not much intent to actually grow the collected monies. Each year, any revenue that exceeds expenditures (including operation of the Fund) are automatically invested in U.S. Treasury Bonds. So in essence, the Fund is doing little more than financing the general purpose federal deficit spending and not really earning any meaningful interest.

However, as I read it, yes, Social Security is an entitlement, even the main part of the program called OASDI (Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance). It is an insurance program, not an investment or pension program. Never has there been any guarantee in it that you will get out at least what you put in. And as a federal insurance program, the federal government can legislate changes to the laws which govern the program.

Strictly speaking, that looks like an entitlement to me. There is no warranty of pay-out. And when you consider that Social Security includes much more than the OASDI--including unemployment benefits and the State Children's Health Insurance Program--the whole concept of a retirement plan is very much diluted.

[stroo]

An "entitlement" is a government program that promises to pay you something.

Social Security is the original and granddaddy of all entitlement programs. The premise throughout the the program was that you pay something in and you get retirement income at some level out.

Having said that, it was never an insurance program, there is no underwriting behind it, or an investment or pension plan, although it was originally sold as a pension plan and has repeatedly be pitched as that to this day.

In fact, Social Security, just like every other entitlement, was always based on transfer payments, i.e. the current generation of taxpayers pays for the current generation of recipients. It has always been a government run ponzi scheme.

[wheelgun1958]

Be my luck they'll arbitrarily raise the age I can draw it up so far that I won't live long enough to see much of it anyway......

You're beginning to understand the plan.

[74novaman]

Life expectancy in 1935 was 61.7 years.

You can begin drawing payments when you're 62 I believe?

If you ever thought social security was anything but a scam, I have a cute little ski condo I'd like to talk to you about right outside of Lubbock.