Who teaches 4 hour classes

[thetexan]

Before 2013 the entire CHL course was between 8 and 10 hours in length.

After 2013 the new rules stated that the class was to have a minimum of 4 hours and a max of 6 hours. DPS taught in its training and maintains to this day that those 4 to 6 hours are based on teaching time only. You do not count breaks, lunch, etc.

I find it impossible to adequately teach all of the topics required by the instructor as per the DPS course outline where it states that all topics in each module must be covered. There must be 70 or 80 outlined topics. I have not been able to properly cover these in less than about 5 1/2 hours of actual teaching time, not counting breaks. If you take 4 hours and divide it, say, 40 min, 40 min, 40 min, and 2 hours (for the law on where to carry and use of the weapon), that means you would have to cover all of the complex topics of the law in those two hours.

If any of you teach the whole thing in 4 actual hours not counting breaks, I'd love to hear about your method because this is the main reason I do not offer night classes yet.

tex

[Papacub]

I can't do it, my classroom portion take 5 1/2 hours.

[troglodyte]

I don't think I've ever done it less than 5 hours. Class size and participation varies the time a little but I've settled in around 5 1/2 hours.

[thetexan]

And in 5 1/2 hours there's gonna be a few breaks at least. If you take 4 10 minute breaks that's another 40 minutes. Add 1 to 1/2 hours of shooting time and that brings the course up to the better part of 8 hours.

And we're back to the pre-2013 numbers.

As I see it the change to 4-6 hours really did nothing but change the way we add the time. The course, for me, takes a good 8 hours.

[WesTx]

The CHL course I recently attended was 6.5 hours total. It was a couple and both were certified instructors. At one point half of the class went and took there shooting portion while the other half kept moving through the materiel, then we swapped out. We were allotted a few quick breaks but mainly moved right along.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I teach the course with 4 hrs of classroom instruction, plus the time for the exam. Before we go to the range I tell every class that, after we finish and all CHL-100s are distributed, I'll stay as long as anyone wants to hear more on the use of force, or to ask questions. Since 9/1/13, not a single student has opted to stay one minute longer.

Chas.

[Taypo]

I teach the course with 4 hrs of classroom instruction, plus the time for the exam. Before we go to the range I tell every class that, after we finish and all CHL-100s are distributed, I'll stay as long as anyone wants to hear more on the use of force, or to ask questions. Since 9/1/13, not a single student has opted to stay one minute longer.

Chas.

That's a shame. I'd have definitely hung around and picked an instructors brain for a bit after class given the opportunity.

[mr surveyor]

I teach the course with 4 hrs of classroom instruction, plus the time for the exam. Before we go to the range I tell every class that, after we finish and all CHL-100s are distributed, I'll stay as long as anyone wants to hear more on the use of force, or to ask questions. Since 9/1/13, not a single student has opted to stay one minute longer.

Chas.

That's a shame. I'd have definitely hung around and picked an instructors brain for a bit after class given the opportunity.

Myself!

jd

[Dragonfighter]

I teach the course with 4 hrs of classroom instruction, plus the time for the exam. Before we go to the range I tell every class that, after we finish and all CHL-100s are distributed, I'll stay as long as anyone wants to hear more on the use of force, or to ask questions. Since 9/1/13, not a single student has opted to stay one minute longer.

Chas.

What's wrong with those people? An opportunity for an intimate deadly force seminar wasted. Sheesh.

[AF-Odin]

Unfortunately, most folks in our society believe the adage that "If the minimum was not good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum." The Legislature of the State of Texas has decreed that the minimum classroom training required is 4 hours and the maximum is 6 hours (plus breaks, exam, range). There are those who will argue all day long for "Constitutional Carry" and no required training as well as those who will argue quite persuasively that 4-6 hours is not enough training time for someone to carry (and possibly use) a firearm in a potentially crowded public area. I would gladly have spent a lot of time after a class discussing legal issues regarding carry and use of force with Charles and believe that he has a good approach which I too will use in my classes. Continuing education is incumbent on all of us to stay apprised of the latest laws as well as tactics and I personally will avail myself of as much continuing education as I can and will then offer that knowledge to my students (though my CHL classes will remain within the parameters of the mandate)

[K5GU]

Isn't the "4 to 6 hours" rule just for the classroom instruction and doesn't include the shooting part?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Charles L. Cotton]

Isn't the "4 to 6 hours" rule just for the classroom instruction and doesn't include the shooting part?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct. It does not include the range portion of the course or the written exam.

Chas.

[Javier730]

My class was a little over 5 hours.

[thetexan]

Unfortunately, most folks in our society believe the adage that "If the minimum was not good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum." The Legislature of the State of Texas has decreed that the minimum classroom training required is 4 hours and the maximum is 6 hours (plus breaks, exam, range). There are those who will argue all day long for "Constitutional Carry" and no required training as well as those who will argue quite persuasively that 4-6 hours is not enough training time for someone to carry (and possibly use) a firearm in a potentially crowded public area. I would gladly have spent a lot of time after a class discussing legal issues regarding carry and use of force with Charles and believe that he has a good approach which I too will use in my classes. Continuing education is incumbent on all of us to stay apprised of the latest laws as well as tactics and I personally will avail myself of as much continuing education as I can and will then offer that knowledge to my students (though my CHL classes will remain within the parameters of the mandate)

That's not what DPS confirms with me nor is it what is taught in the class, at least my class. You take the 'standing in front of the class teaching time', not counting any breaks or any other thing and it should total to a minimum of 4 hours and not more than 6 hours. So if I have six hours of teaching I need to do, I add say an hour of breaks and lunch...that brings it to 7 hours, then add shooting time, maybe an hour, and that would be an 8 hour course, about.

I can usually give good service to the statutes in about 3 1/2 hours. I also emphasize, like I do with pilots and air traffic controllers, that they need to spend many more hours really internalizing the statutes to achieve sufficient expertise.

I would like to teach a one night class but I don't see how, even if we shoot the next day. Most people get off at 5:30 or 6:00. If I start at 6 pm, do only 4 hours of reasonably thorough teaching (which I think can't be done) with no breaks would take us to 10 pm. Add 30 minutes of breaks and we're at 10:30 to 11 pm.

tex

[AF-Odin]

Tex

Perhaps we are misunderstanding one another. What I thought I stated was that the maximum class instruction time was to not exceed 6 hours thus my parenthetical statement indicating that in addition to the minimum 4 or maximum 6 hours of instruction one would need to add break time, exam time, and range time. I agree that the time to actually complete would be somewhere around the 8+ hour point (on the low side). Having had it beat into me for far too many years by the USAF about 50 minutes of academics followed by a 10 minute break so the academic portion without the test is easily 5 hours for just the minimum instruction and then add the exam (so far I have never had a student take more than 30 minutes) plus grading and critiquing the exam is another better part of an hour so I am up to 6 hours at the minimum. Then, the range to include set-up, safety brief, course of fire, and scoring is again the better part of an hour (which does not include travel time to and from the range) so we are at easily 7 hours plus some travel time if we keep toward the minimum. As you state, it is dificult to do on a Friday night. My normal class generally eats a full Saturday. 8-12 instruction, break for lunch, 1-3 finish academics and take test, travel to range, shoot, complete about 5 or 6 thus a 9-10 hour day from start to finish for me and the student(s). Also, I only do small classes of 1-3 students. I don't know how I would deal with any more than that and keep it to one day while still allowing for questions, follow-ups, and assessing learning as we move through the subject matter

The primary purpose of my original post was to respond to the fact that Charles stated not a single student had taken him up on the offer to stay for additional instruction.

Thanks for keeping us clear of traffic. Wish all those drones had a transponder so you could see them (also a CFII and MEI, but not ATC)