How to report improper §30.06 signs

[Jaguar]

I have a question and please excuse me if this was answered elsewhere. Hospitals are statutorily off limits due to PC §46.035(b)(4), if they post a 30.06 sign per subsection (i).

Does this mean a county hospital can legally post a 30.06 sign even though it is owned by a government entity?

Yes. Any place off limits in 46.03 or 46.035 can post 30.06.

Thanks for the quick reply, I thought so but wanted to confirm my suspicion here.

[android]

Fayette County Fair
PROBABLY SOME QUESTIONS FOR CHARLES

This info on the web pages seems too indicate the grounds are owned by the county.

Later, in 1957, two Fayette County Commissioners, G. Emerson Work and J. Lewis Williams, decided to buy a sizeable piece of land in Dunbar Township—the current site of the Fayette County Fair.

The entire fair was heavily posted for no concealed carry. The buses from the parking lots to/from as well as the fairgrounds. Not 30.06 signs, but NO GUNS, NO CONCEALED CARRY, NO KNIVES, etc...

A LEO asked me if I had a knife as I entered, I did not since the parking lots had signs and I had decided to leave knife and gun in the car. But wands were on the table, so they could wave down people they wanted to.

School buses were used for transportation, but the obviously knew they were NOT school buses as most of them had temporarily taped over the XXX ISD on the sides of the buses. So they were probably rented to the fair association to make a few dollars for the owing districts.

This is a 4 day event, so by the time the county is notified the signs are illegal, it is over and it is all gone. Then they just skirt the law and do it all over again next year...

Does the new law have any way to deal with this type of gov behavior? Would a decision against them be carried to the next year? What if they're just willing to be out the fine for the 4 days? That doesn't really accomplish the desire of the law, does it?

[Abraham]

CJD,

You posted: "Any place off limits in 46.03 or 46.035 can post 30.06"

What does that mean?

Please elaborate for us that aren't up on this particular.

Thanks!

[CJD]

CJD,

You posted: "Any place off limits in 46.03 or 46.035 can post 30.06"

What does that mean?

Please elaborate for us that aren't up on this particular.

Thanks!

Texas Penal Code 30.06 says "It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."

Places that are off limits in those sections:
46.03:
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or
(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

46.035:
(b)
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, in the room or rooms
where a meeting of a governmental entity is held and if the meeting is an open meeting subject to Chapter 551, Government Code,
and the entity provided notice as required by that chapter.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.


So any places listed in these 2 sections may post 30.06 regardless of whether or not they are owned or leased by a governmental entity.

[unicyclist]

Wow... Fort Worth zoo combining 30.06 and 30.07 signs on city property. How else can they fail to comply with the law? They don't care, they just don't want icky guns near their dangerous animals... Or the zoo animals either.

It is almost like they know that they are doing it wrong, they are counting on the gun carrying public to not know in their efforts to be the most law abiding group in Texas.

I look for them to begin a propaganda campaign. I would bet a dime to a dollar they'll be making statements to the public how they are legitimately exempted and the evil gun people are trying to turn the the zoo and war zone and dangerous place. I wouldn't doubt they'd even threaten closing.

I plan on calling the zoo to enroll my child in the Fort Worth Zoo day care.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Wow... Fort Worth zoo combining 30.06 and 30.07 signs on city property. How else can they fail to comply with the law? They don't care, they just don't want icky guns near their dangerous animals... Or the zoo animals either.

It is almost like they know that they are doing it wrong, they are counting on the gun carrying public to not know in their efforts to be the most law abiding group in Texas.

I look for them to begin a propaganda campaign. I would bet a dime to a dollar they'll be making statements to the public how they are legitimately exempted and the evil gun people are trying to turn the the zoo and war zone and dangerous place. I wouldn't doubt they'd even threaten closing.

I plan on calling the zoo to enroll my child in the Fort Worth Zoo day care.

I'd love to hear their response.

Chas.

[locke_n_load]

CJD,

You posted: "Any place off limits in 46.03 or 46.035 can post 30.06"

What does that mean?

Please elaborate for us that aren't up on this particular.

Thanks!

Texas Penal Code 30.06 says "It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."

Places that are off limits in those sections:
46.03:
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or
(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

46.035:
(b)
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, in the room or rooms
where a meeting of a governmental entity is held and if the meeting is an open meeting subject to Chapter 551, Government Code,
and the entity provided notice as required by that chapter.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.


So any places listed in these 2 sections may post 30.06 regardless of whether or not they are owned or leased by a governmental entity.

I disagree with you here CJD. Hospitals are only off-limits if they are posted per 30.06. They are not automatically banned under 46.03 or 46.035, and city/county property postings are unenforceable. Especially after January 1st - you can tell them about the error of their sign, give them 3 days, then inform the AG and get em fined if they keep it up.

[CJD]

CJD,

You posted: "Any place off limits in 46.03 or 46.035 can post 30.06"

What does that mean?

Please elaborate for us that aren't up on this particular.

Thanks!

Texas Penal Code 30.06 says "It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."

Places that are off limits in those sections:
46.03:
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or
(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

46.035:
(b)
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, in the room or rooms
where a meeting of a governmental entity is held and if the meeting is an open meeting subject to Chapter 551, Government Code,
and the entity provided notice as required by that chapter.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.


So any places listed in these 2 sections may post 30.06 regardless of whether or not they are owned or leased by a governmental entity.

I disagree with you here CJD. Hospitals are only off-limits if they are posted per 30.06. They are not automatically banned under 46.03 or 46.035, and city/county property postings are unenforceable. Especially after January 1st - you can tell them about the error of their sign, give them 3 days, then inform the AG and get em fined if they keep it up.

That's not how I interpret the code, but maybe someone like Charles can clarify.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Hospitals are off-limits if a 30.06 sign is posted. SB273 does not prohibit the posting of a 30.06 sign on such property for two reasons. First, they are off-limits under §46.035 even though 30.06 notice is required. Secondly, the legislature would not create a legal impossibility, i.e. requiring a sign that is prohibited by a different statute.

Chas.

[locke_n_load]

Hospitals are off-limits if a 30.06 sign is posted. SB273 does not prohibit the posting of a 30.06 sign on such property for two reasons. First, they are off-limits under §46.035 even though 30.06 notice is required. Secondly, the legislature would not create a legal impossibility, i.e. requiring a sign that is prohibited by a different statute.

Chas.

Interesting that city owned hospitals and nursing homes can post legally enforceable 30.06 signs.
Seems inconsistent, seeing that any other publically owned buildings, barring courthourses, cannot probibit carry via 30.06.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Hospitals are off-limits if a 30.06 sign is posted. SB273 does not prohibit the posting of a 30.06 sign on such property for two reasons. First, they are off-limits under §46.035 even though 30.06 notice is required. Secondly, the legislature would not create a legal impossibility, i.e. requiring a sign that is prohibited by a different statute.

Chas.

Interesting that city owned hospitals and nursing homes can post legally enforceable 30.06 signs.
Seems inconsistent, seeing that any other publically owned buildings, barring courthourses, cannot probibit carry via 30.06.

In some ways it is inconsistent, but the legislature has expressly made hospitals, nursing homes and schools off-limits. It did not do so with any other buildings that are owned by cities.

Chas.

[mojo84]

Looks like I will be the one to notify Kendall County of their improper signs. They still have the gunbuster signs saying no guns on the courthouse. All of the courts are on the second floor and that is where the metal detectors are located. Will probably stop by to take pictures later today when I have a chance.

Haven't had occasion to check the other local government buildings yet.

[ScottDLS]

Hospitals are off-limits if a 30.06 sign is posted. SB273 does not prohibit the posting of a 30.06 sign on such property for two reasons. First, they are off-limits under §46.035 even though 30.06 notice is required. Secondly, the legislature would not create a legal impossibility, i.e. requiring a sign that is prohibited by a different statute.

Chas.

Interesting that city owned hospitals and nursing homes can post legally enforceable 30.06 signs.
Seems inconsistent, seeing that any other publically owned buildings, barring courthourses, cannot probibit carry via 30.06.

In some ways it is inconsistent, but the legislature has expressly made hospitals, nursing homes and schools off-limits. It did not do so with any other buildings that are owned by cities.

Chas.

Don't forget city owned Amusement Parks like the Dallas Zoo.

[Glockster]

Wow... Fort Worth zoo combining 30.06 and 30.07 signs on city property. How else can they fail to comply with the law? They don't care, they just don't want icky guns near their dangerous animals... Or the zoo animals either.

It is almost like they know that they are doing it wrong, they are counting on the gun carrying public to not know in their efforts to be the most law abiding group in Texas.

I look for them to begin a propaganda campaign. I would bet a dime to a dollar they'll be making statements to the public how they are legitimately exempted and the evil gun people are trying to turn the the zoo and war zone and dangerous place. I wouldn't doubt they'd even threaten closing.

I plan on calling the zoo to enroll my child in the Fort Worth Zoo day care.

FYI, as is with the Dallas Zoo and being discussed in a separate thread, Fort Worth Zoo also holds an amusement park license.

[ScottDLS]

Wow... Fort Worth zoo combining 30.06 and 30.07 signs on city property. How else can they fail to comply with the law? They don't care, they just don't want icky guns near their dangerous animals... Or the zoo animals either.

It is almost like they know that they are doing it wrong, they are counting on the gun carrying public to not know in their efforts to be the most law abiding group in Texas.

I look for them to begin a propaganda campaign. I would bet a dime to a dollar they'll be making statements to the public how they are legitimately exempted and the evil gun people are trying to turn the the zoo and war zone and dangerous place. I wouldn't doubt they'd even threaten closing.

I plan on calling the zoo to enroll my child in the Fort Worth Zoo day care.

FYI, as is with the Dallas Zoo and being discussed in a separate thread, Fort Worth Zoo also holds an amusement park license.

Unlike the Dallas Zoo, the Fort Worth Zoo is not 75 acres or greater, so they fail the definition of an amusement park under 46.035. Let's see if they try to use the Amusement Park idea as justification....