What really counts as notice

[bcdudley]

So today I was in a conversation with an HR manager at work. We were discussing the fact that a new employee handbook was coming out in January. The manager mentioned that she was putting something in the manual regarding open carry in the office. We started talking about that a little and she then told me that the building actually prohibits CHL carry as well as the company does not allow it.
I know for a fact that my boss, a "C" level person, carries every day. I also know than numerous other high level people including the CEO and President carry as I have been shooting with them at lunch a few times. I am a director level position so technically I outrank the HR manager, she has however been there much longer.
The current employee manual does not contain any language about carrying weapons being prohibited and it is my understanding that was intentional. The building I am in is the an office space attached to a major public shopping area with public access. There is no signage at all, not a 30.06, not even a gun busters sign prohibiting glocks.

So would this count as notice. I don't think so, but wanted to get some other opinions. My opinion is that she is not authorized to make that statement without the owners consent.

[Beiruty]

not sure what to say. If you are told you cannot carry in the company, verbally, by handing you a notice, or asking you to read the manual and sign that your read it, or by 30.06/30.07 Then, you are on notice.
As per your discussion, it is just discussion about her intent what to do for OC.

[bcdudley]

I was more concerned over the fact that she said both the building and the company prohibit carry even though people above her pay grade seemingly endorse it. What gives a person the authority to give notice to someone else. If anybody can do so, does that mean that an hourly employee can come in on their first day and put the entire company on notice? Extreme example I know, but trying to make a point and start a discussion.

[Beiruty]

I was more concerned over the fact that she said both the building and the company prohibit carry even though people above her pay grade seemingly endorse it. What gives a person the authority to give notice to someone else. If anybody can do so, does that mean that an hourly employee can come in on their first day and put the entire company on notice? Extreme example I know, but trying to make a point and start a discussion.

HR department are very powerful folks. For large Co. They have a direct chain all the way to the CEO. Most likely a VP of some sort. In small co. It is not likely the same case. However, HR manager has to have CEO go-light to change any policy.

[AJSully421]

I noticed... The lack of any mention of a metal detector. Carry on.

[Jago668]

If they don't have authority to change company wide policies then I'd say they can't give notice to employees. Do they have the power to say everyone will use blue pens from now on, or all documents will now be 13 point instead of 12 point font? If they don't have the power for that, I can't see them having the power for the other. Until there is a company wide notice of policy change (which a new handbook would cover I would think) that says otherwise I'd continue to carry. As far as the building, with no 30.06/30.07 I wouldn't worry about it. I guess there could be something in the lease your company signed, but you would have thought it would have made it into the employee handbook if that was the case.

[Glockster]

Have you talked to your boss to ask him? Given that you know that he carries, and that the HR person has already said something to you, you now don't really have anything to loose by now asking your boss.

HR doesn't have the authority to implement any policy on their own. They can certainly make recommendations, and they can create any policy that they have been given direction to create, but absent someone telling them no, they can at times believe that they have authority that they do not. Especially if it is someone that has been with the company a long time. As a consultant I have worked with many senior HR folks, at levels all the way to SVP and in very large companies. And I have on six occasions been brought in specifically to provide executive coaching to HR managers who have had a habit of overstepping their authority and then were engaging in battles to fend off employees challenging that authority. Each of those times it was because the HR manager tried to create policy based on his/her personal opinions, rather than based on any direction they'd been given. It happens. And right now a danger lurking on the horizon is that if this is one of the problem HR managers, you can anticipate that in "support" of their position they may well directly ask the building manger/owner to post the building, which then takes your complication to a new level.

Again, it sounds like your boss either is ignoring the policy if it exists, or is not aware of any such policy. And I'd want to start with having a dialog with him.

[Pawpaw]

I think I would ask the CEO and President if one of them would be willing to give you an official letter, granting you permission to carry at work regardless of any company policy.

[Abraham]

"I know for a fact that my boss, a "C" level person, carries every day."

By C level do you your boss has a CHL?

[locke_n_load]

"I know for a fact that my boss, a "C" level person, carries every day."

By C level do you your boss has a CHL?

I think he means "president = level A, vice president = level B, his boss = level C"

[SA_Steve]

CEO
CFO
CTO
etc

[cyphertext]

CEO
CFO
CTO
etc

Exactly... "C" level means executive level, with the word "Chief" in his/her title.

And if the Manager of HR has told you it is against policy to carry, you have been effectively notified, in my opinion. Doesn't matter if the CEO carries or not... he has perks! I don't get the same pay, vacation, retirement pay, stock options, etc., as the C class in the company I work for.

[thetexan]

I don't think so either...not 30.06 notification.

30.06 has to be either oral (which can be any verbage which gets the point across that you can't have that gun in here)...or
on a card, or document or sign and must have precise language which, according to your post, does not.

So, assuming they have not notified you properly by 30.06 as above, you have not been notified and therefore are not in violation of 30.06 and therefore not in violation of the law. Notifying you by written word (as in a handbook or policy) only works if it complies with the written provisions of 30.06 if their intent is to notify you according to state law. Otherwise they have to verbally tell you or brief you to comply with 30.06.

The other side of this coin is that Texas is a employ at will state and they can fire you for any reason that is not specifically prohibited by law (EEO, protected groups, etc).

Violating their employee handbook policies gives them all the reason they need to terminate you even though it isn't compliant 30.06 notification for the purpose of statutory notification. You won't have violated the law but you will be on the street telling your friends how you didn't violate the law.

tex

[Abraham]

SA_Steve,

Thanks!

Until now, I'd not heard the term "C Level Person".

[bcdudley]

"C" level as in an executive officer of the company. I have discussed this with him previously and he stated that it is not in the employee handbook for the simple reason that it is not company policy. The company is very conservative and right leaning. In this case, it is just the hr manager expressing her opinion and wanting it to be policy.
As far as her contacting building management and getting them to post signage, I find that unlikely. This is a large office complex with hundreds of tenants as well as being open to the public.