First encounter. I hope there aren't more.

[jmra]

Not to hijack the thread, but the conversation brings a question to mind...
An OCer walks into a store (not posted) and a clerk tells him that guns aren't allowed. I've heard many people say in causal conversation they would simply go out to the car and cover the gun and return CCing (not what I'd do btw).

Based on what I'm reading here, unless the clerk specifically said that OC was not allowed and simply stated that guns are not allowed, the effective notice would ban all types of carry indifinately at that location for that individual. (Guess I should be posting this in the form of a question)

Now one could make the argument that you could simply shop elsewhere, but for many that may not always be an option. This is one of the reasons I won't be OCing in businesses. The possible exception might be if the business made it clear that OC was welcome.

[mojo84]

Welcome back, jmra. It's been a while.

It's my understanding one would be banned indefinitely or until notified otherwise.

No sense in people bringing it up in conversation. Your other point is noted. That is just a risk one may or may not choose to take.

[jmra]

Welcome back, jmra.

Thanks Mojo.

[mayor]

I think we're going to be hearing a lot more about people not knowing/misinterpreting the law on OC. The President is determined to leave some kind of legacy from his administration and I think we'll see a full-court press against guns and gun owners in the coming year. To that end the anti-gun crowd will skew the facts, laws and statistics to get what they want and they will be trying to make OC'ers lives as miserable as possible. They will probably make law enforcement's life miserable in the process.

Personally, I think Open Carry is a really bad idea. The general public does not know the law and even if they do has no way of knowing if the carrier is licensed or not. All they see is "a man with a gun". The only good thing I see in the new law is that you haven't committed a violation if you inadvertently expose your weapon.

what i like about open carry is, for instance, today was cold, i had on a coat. I could go into a restaurant, where it is warm, remove my coat and be comfortable without having to worry about displaying my weapon. if i'm asked to leave, so be it. i won't return - ever.

[Jim Beaux]

Truth is simple. There are only 2 possible answers here: 1. The store allows guns, or 2. the store does not allow guns.

During the interaction the OP was never advised in any form or by inference that guns were allowed. Regardless if one of the reasons for this decision are invalid, it still doesnt convey permission. The "no guns" was clearly communicated.

The only no gun information I received from the clerk was that it was necessary for all parties to obey the blue sign which she misinterpreted. I don't need a shopkeeper to give me verbal permission to enter with a firearm.

I'm not worried about whether or not I received permission or verbal prohibition. I'm worried that the blue TABC sign could become for all intents and purposes a combination 30.06/30.07 sign in the minds of shopkeepers and LE.

I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

OOOOOOOKAY

[thetexan]

I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

Assuming she was the owner or acting with apparent authority of the owner by asking that question you invited an answer that gives you permanent verbal notice.

You will now never be able to legally carry in there.

I will be able to but you won't. Don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer.

tex

[biomass1]

I've got to admit that I find the "no guns allowed" thing kind of amusing. Do the people who "don't allow guns" really believe they are contributing anything to their safety or that of their customers by banning OC or CC? Do they think the bad guys are going to pay any attention to the signs or leave if they're given verbal warning? In my opinion the "banning" of guns is nothing more than an anti-gun political statement that makes the owners feel better or panders to the owner's perception of the political views of his/her customers.

It's a waste of your mental energy trying to parse the meaning of the law or trying to figure out how to weasel around it. If a business owner says "no guns" just accept it and be on your way. He/she doesn't have to allow guns and you don't have to shop there. And arguing the law with the LEO who shows up is waste of his time and yours. Besides, the chances are good that he knows the store personnel and he doesn't know you.

[C-dub]

Do the people who "don't allow guns" really believe they are contributing anything to their safety or that of their customers by banning OC or CC?

Yes, they do. I can't imagine that any of these folks have ever played the game of chess or are any good at it if they have. They simply don't think about the next move or next 3-5+ moves by either side.

[gljjt]

Here is the bigger question... Has everyone who has read this thread been given eternal written notice simply by reading the posts?

Something to think about...

What are you talking about?

I am making fun of anyone saying this guy has received eternal verbal notice and that he is the only person in all of the universe who cannot OC or CC in that store, ever... even if the store changes owners, is bulldozed and made into something else... Perma ban on the OP!!!

In the case of verbal notice, as long as it is done by a management employee, then the notice IS permanent until such time as it is reascended by someone with authority for the business. Notice would also go away should the business change to something else, but would NOT go away if it just changed management unless you were given permission by the new management.

Not just management. Management can give non-management authority to speak on their behalf with regard to policy. To automatically exclude someone as being in authorized to give notice because they are non-managment could be costly.

[K.Mooneyham]

Okay, so some folks on here have opined that if an employee, including a cash register clerk at a convenience store, uses the statement "no guns in here", the individual spoken to in such a manner is now permanently banned from bringing a handgun into that establishment, open or concealed. So, here is my question: at that point, what would it hurt to ask if that means openly carried, or concealed carried, too? I mean, if the person is now banned anyway? Maybe the management just doesn't want OC'd handguns in there, and are either too lazy, too cheap, or too ill-informed to put up the correct signage to properly convey their wishes. And, then again, maybe it's just that one clerk, and not management's policy. If they still say, "all guns", well nothing changed, but if they say "yeah, just don't wear it around like that where everyone can see it, it scares the other customers", then you got clarification. Just a thought...

[mojo84]

K, I do not see a problem asking for clarification.