WFAA gun discussions this week

[magillapd]

These so called "tests" are 100% rigged with a specific agenda that is often anti 2A. Classic example of experimenters cognitive and confirmation bias, a two for one if you will.


Now, if you would do an educational forum where public is informed of facts and stipulations pertaining to LTC holders such as non-felon, non-drunk driver, no history of domestic violence, not behind in child support payments and many many more, THAT would be a great start WFAA folks!

This stinks.

Did you watch the video? It appears you didn't or you watched the wrong one.

The only thing I may take issue with in this video is how quickly the bad guy noticed the openly carried gun. It seems the only agenda was to promote concealed over open carry.

I don't see an agenda against open carry. Like the officer aaid, and I agree, if he was doing this for real and saw someone with a gun on his hip, he'd shoot him/her first. This is common sense. A bad guy doesn't want to be shot, so yeah, take out the person you KNOW can fight back....then you HOPE no one else has a gun concealed.

[mojo84]

These so called "tests" are 100% rigged with a specific agenda that is often anti 2A. Classic example of experimenters cognitive and confirmation bias, a two for one if you will.


Now, if you would do an educational forum where public is informed of facts and stipulations pertaining to LTC holders such as non-felon, non-drunk driver, no history of domestic violence, not behind in child support payments and many many more, THAT would be a great start WFAA folks!

This stinks.

Did you watch the video? It appears you didn't or you watched the wrong one.

The only thing I may take issue with in this video is how quickly the bad guy noticed the openly carried gun. It seems the only agenda was to promote concealed over open carry.

I don't see an agenda against open carry. Like the officer aaid, and I agree, if he was doing this for real and saw someone with a gun on his hip, he'd shoot him/her first. This is common sense. A bad guy doesn't want to be shot, so yeah, take out the person you KNOW can fight back....then you HOPE no one else has a gun concealed.

Having an agenda in and of itself is not a bad thing. I just indicated that the only agenda that I noticed was the encouraged CC over OC. I didn't say it was good or bad or whether I agree or disagree.

I have yet to open carry off of my property with the exception of while in my vehicle. So, I am not a hardcore OC guy by any stretch of the imagination.

[flintknapper]

I think this 'test' had some merit (unlike the previous one).

Yes, there were some very limiting factors (shooter able to immediately I.D. carriers by virtue of their headgear, etc). But, the SWAT cop was clearly 'holding back', I thought he performed well and tried to make concessions.

I didn't get a good look at the weaponry provided each 'carrier', but there is a good chance it did not match what each person defending themselves was familiar with. Having to defend yourself with a weapon you've never handled before... might be expected to produce poorer accuracy than normal.

Still, not a bad test overall, IMO.

[VMI77]

I'm not. With the exception of the woman, who clearly needs to go to the range (and I have no doubt she will now), they all seem to have trained enough to put lead on target. That's all that really matters. The husband might have done better in the first scenario if he hadn't had an aversion to the head shot. I think about head shots all the time in game planning. It's a part of awareness. If you are facing multiple bad guys, you'd better do some head shots or you'll lose. You need to put people down fast when you're confronted with multiple attackers. And if a guy is wearing body armor, only a head shot is going to stop him.

When my son went to the police academy there was an ex-Marine in his class who advocated head shots. He was told to keep his shots center mass because police accuracy in a gun fight is already only about 20% with the larger target. I too practice head shots but I don't expect them to be successful in a dynamic situation (movement), especially with multiple BGs.

Head shots are not the only way to take down an attacker wearing body armor. In my advanced pistol class they advocated shooting into the pelvic area below the vest because the target is larger and a broken pelvis is better than a missed head shot. Obviously, if the attacker is behind cover and the head is the only target that's where you have to shoot.

Within 15 yards I'm confident I can make a head shot with any handgun I own...including my snubbies....on the range with no movement and no one shooting at me. In a gun fight, with adrenaline dump and movement, I'm not so sure.

And yet in the demonstration, several of the shooters made lethal head shots. Something to think about.

I like the idea of shooting to the pelvic area. That might be effective as well.

I think it depends on the situation. I'm not saying never take a head shot just that I don't think I can count on that opportunity presenting itself as easily in a gun fight. I think another scenario that calls for a head shot is a crowded area, like a restaurant, where you can't clear the background.....the idea being to get low and angle the shot upwards into the head so a miss or thru and thru goes into the ceiling.

In the class I took we practiced a three shot series...pelvis, CM, neck/head....the idea being we might not know that someone is wearing body armor. I'm reminded of that courthouse shooting where one of the bystanders shot the BG (who had an AK) at near point blank range CM and dropped him. The carrier was a marksmanship instructor and an excellent shot and I believe he used a 1911. He didn't know the BG was wearing armor and didn't expect him to get up. When he got up unexpectedly he was surprised and unprepared to follow through and ended up getting killed.

[amtank]

I haven't seen part 2 yet. I'll say ammo selection is important. I've noticed that most people get directed to the biggest grain loading in their caliber. I personally carry a solid copper 50 grain hollow point in a 9mm.

[stingeragent]

Not completely important but the plate inserts are not steel, they are ceramic along with some other materials, at least when I got out in 2012. Was the X-SAPI plates at the time. I can tell you the vests without the plates are thin and flexible. Hitting someone center mass without a plate is most likely going to put them on their ass. One of our medics took a single 7.62 round to his rear plate and he was on his face. That's with a plate. Your not gonna kill them but its for sure gonna hurt. I have been in some firefights and my own recommendation would be to avoid head shots. You may can shoot 1 MOA with your target gun at the range, but unless you've ever been in the real situation, your gonna have a whole new world hitting you while your trying to take that shot. Center mass or the pelvis as was mentioned is a better option. That I guess can be taken as situation dependent. If the target is 2 ft away you'd prolly be fine either way, but put them across a large room, and your blood is rushing, your shaking, its a whole different experience. Hard to explain unless you've been there. To any of my other Brothers In Arms in here, you know what I mean.

As to the test I think it was good minus part 2. They should have put a helmet on all the people, as the CHL holder was the only one in the room with it, so that made it obvious to the other person who was the shooter. They still for the most part did ok, but I think that would have helped. Overall though, a fairly decent presentation. It could have been staged much worse, so hats off to them for at least trying to make it as unbiased as possible.

A final thought to the CHL holders on here, if you aren't practicing at the range by drawing from your holster you should be. That is probably common sense but if it helps 1 person its a worthy note.

[fickman]

I'm reminded of that courthouse shooting where one of the bystanders shot the BG (who had an AK) at near point blank range CM and dropped him. The carrier was a marksmanship instructor and an excellent shot and I believe he used a 1911. He didn't know the BG was wearing armor and didn't expect him to get up. When he got up unexpectedly he was surprised and unprepared to follow through and ended up getting killed.

This was at the Tyler courthouse. Mark Alan Wilson is a hero even though he did not kill the shooter, he bravely and selflessly saved many lives that day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_c ... e_shooting

[stingeragent]

That's an excellent point to be aware of. Never assume the threat is over. I remember a story my CHL instructor told ( a story he told so I can't 100% verify if it was actually true or not). A guy was parking in a parking garage, exited his vehicle, someone approached from behind the vehicle towards him. The bad guy started to draw his firearm up, and he was shot by the CHL holder. The CHL guy assumed the threat was over as the bad guy went down, and reholstered his weapon. An accomplice approached from the side of the parking garage and shot the chl holder. For all intents and purposes he could have made this up to make a point, but just something to keep in mind. Also of note, any other CHL holder in the area doesn't know you have a CHL, so if you have to take down a bad guy, and another CHL holder hears shots from around the corner and for whatever reason approaches, and sees you standing over someone with your gun out, there is no way for them to know if you were the bad guy or the good guy. Again just things to think about.

[Solaris]

"So why is Body Armor so easy to obtain?"

[TexasJohnBoy]

"So why is Body Armor so easy to obtain?"

Oh, that's the angle for tonight's?

[Solaris]

"So why is Body Armor so easy to obtain?"

Oh, that's the angle for tonight's?

That is the lead-in for tomorrow night, given the bad guy survived so many of the scenarios due to his BA.

[mojo84]

"So why is Body Armor so easy to obtain?"

Because ar500 steel isn't illegal. Why is the answer always more laws, more government, more money and things made illegal?

Freedom comes with risk.

[baldeagle]

Here's part 2. http://www.wfaa.com/videos/news/local/i ... /78724756/

[Richbirdhunter]

"So why is Body Armor so easy to obtain?"

Why shouldn't it be? Are you of the mind set that if enough laws are passed that bad people will stop doing bad things?

[rentz]

Here's part 2. http://www.wfaa.com/videos/news/local/i ... /78724756/

this one was good too, and shows sometimes the best option is to sit tight and call 911.
I'm surprised how well the lady did in that scenario given how poor her aim was in the previous ones.