Carrying a firearm at WORK for intimidation only?!

[ForbidInjustice]

Yes, another "carrying at work" topic -- here it is:

In my area in the past month, there have been two murders, one a double-murder at a Dollar General store in which both employees were executed two hours before store opening, in cold blood. The $50 the scumbag garnered was not the motive. The second was in a neighbourhood very close to this particular dollar store, and also close to my brother-in-law's place of employment. The victim of this second murder just happened to come into his store hours before the shooting. He took some lug nuts, then left his driver's license and a blank check on the store's counter. How about that?

My brother-in-law is a manager at the Auto Zone nearby, and due to these recent events, the GM is revising the policy for this store to allow their employees to open carry a loaded firearm while they are on duty. The condition is that they CANNOT draw their weapon, because in his words, "if they were to shoot someone, it would fall back on Auto Zone and the company would be held liable." I understand not being able to draw their weapon to show their friends or pop out the barrel for oiling, but for self-defense and possible preservation of life?

The word "asinine" comes to mind. My brother wants a CHL, but I told him that with written permission from the GM to carry, he does not need a CHL to carry openly at work. The gray areas in that option? Traveling to and from work, and maybe forgetting the weapon was in his car sometime while he was running an errand.. under the most untimely of circumstances, he may end up with a UCW. Also, even on Auto Zone's turf outside maybe checking someone's oil, carrying openly, the LEOs could possibly have something to say about that. However, I think due to it being private property, he can legally open-carry outside just as he can inside.

That being said, I told him this: carrying a weapon for intimidation will get you killed. That's point blank and period. If it's not for safety, and you aren't "allowed" to draw your weapon under any circumstances, then don't carry it, because it is worthless in that case and will do more harm than good. If a robber wants to hurt someone, he's going for the guy with the gun on his waist in plain view first and foremost. [The criminals around here shoot someone almost every time, as if money were never the purpose of the robbery.]

If I am carrying a loaded weapon, I am going to be fully prepared to use deadly force should it become necessary, regardless of the store's policy on handguns. If it comes down to my life or my job at an auto parts store, which will I choose every time?

It sounds like they are setting their employees up for failure, and I am going to discourage him from carrying a weapon openly. On the other hand, I am going to push him to get his CHL and carry concealed, therefore being compliant with store policy AND state law, as well as inconspicuously protecting himself and his fellow co-workers if it were to become necessary.

Any thoughts about my thoughts? The policy? Am I giving him the right advice here?

[Dwight K. Schrute]

Whew... lots of thoughts, but I'll stick to the "setting them up for failure" comment. I think you're spot on, my friend. Telling someone they can OC yet not draw is like installing an alarm and telling employees the cannot trigger it in the event of an emergency. Ludicrous... But, then again, my feelings on OC in the first place cannot be described without breaking the 10 year-old daughter rule.

[BShook]

If he's going to carry a gun, he had better be able to back it up with the ability to use it... otherwise he's asking for trouble.

It's like challenging someone to a knife fight without a knife...

[Wildscar]

If he does not draw that gun when the time comes I'm fairly certain that a BG will be able to help him do that.

That just stupid to let them carry but tell them they can not draw when needed. If hes going to wear it then h better be ready to use it even if it means he has to get fired to save lives. That GM makes me think of the Captain in S.W.A.T. The one that says "Sometimes doing the right thing aint doing the right thing."

Guess they are going to have to brush up on their harsh language...

[TxRVer]

If he's going to carry a gun, he had better be able to back it up with the ability to use it... otherwise he's asking for trouble.

It's like challenging someone to a knife fight without a knife...

I agree. Not much changes with a CHL if he still has orders not to use it at work.

[seamusTX]

My brother-in-law is a manager at the Auto Zone nearby, and due to these recent events, the GM is revising the policy for this store to allow their employees to open carry a loaded firearm while they are on duty. The condition is that they CANNOT draw their weapon, because in his words, "if they were to shoot someone, it would fall back on Auto Zone and the company would be held liable."

Words nearly fail me.

If criminals enter the store and injure or kill an employee, Auto Zone is certain to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit, possible a multi-million dollar one.

If it is known that the employees of a store are armed, criminals attempting to rob that store are going to adopt the strategy of shooting first and shooting again.

- Jim

[Rokyudai]

Forbid,

I think your advice is spot on considering the stated purpose for OC (intimidation). I think it is a poorly planned strategy to immediately initiate a "everyone can open carry" policy at work. I can only think its to reduce business losses rather than human loss. Without knowing the true intentions of the GM I feel as though the person believes that employees should be self-monitoring and even vigilante like...I don't for one moment oppose a business to change it's policy as long as it is responsible and not so reactionary. What other alternatives are there? AutoZone is a fairly large company...the sound of a armed patroling security guard sounds rediculous...but so does having employees 'man the fort' . Just my .02

[TX Rancher]

Take the authorization from management to carry, open or concealed (personally I would prefer concealed), agree the rules are not to use the weapon during a robbery (notice I didn’t say agree not to use it, only verify you know that’s the company policy), and then let your instincts be your guide on whether to draw or not.

If you legally use your weapon, the most they can do to you is fire you. But if you don’t think you need it to defend yourself or others against deadly force, then don’t draw it (hence the concealed preference so you retain the choice). The company has decided to let them have the cash, and that’s their privilege since it’s their money. But they don’t have the right to mandate their employees accept physical harm…

I think you telling your friend don’t carry unless he’s willing to use it when necessary is the right answer.

[nitrogen]

I think you hit it spot on.

Simply: If he chooses to carry a weapon, either openly or concealed, he should be prepared to use it, regardless of the store's policy. If he is OK with the consequences of violating that policy, I'd encourage him to carry either way.

[mcub]

If you really believe you are about to get killed, you are not going to care about getting fired or sued.

So... just accept the offer , and hopefully you'll never have to use it.

[Venus Pax]

I have a feeling this is one of those "carry your gun, but don't draw it" -- wink, wink type deals.

If he can carry concealed, I think he should. If he does, he needs to be prepared to draw. It sounds like they would only possibly fire him if he had to draw and defend himself.

[MoJo]

Maybe your brother-in-law needs to look for another place to work.

[stevie_d_64]

Maybe your brother-in-law needs to look for another place to work.

If its that bad in the area...I would think the time spent looking and finding something else would be well spent...

I'm with MoJo on this one...

[govnor]

I think the manager has to tell them that they can't draw the gun to Cover his own rear end. That way in case something does happen and a robber gets shot...a whole bunch of times, then he can say he told them they weren't supposed to be shooting any bad guys.

I think open carry is a bad idea in a place of business, unless it's a gun store or something like that. Too many people are anti gun and it might run off business. On the other hand, I think concealed carry is perfectly fine as long as you're willing to use it to defend yourself and others. It would be worth getting fired to still be alive to go work somewhere else.

[Liberty]

I think the manager has to tell them that they can't draw the gun to Cover his own rear end. That way in case something does happen and a robber gets shot...a whole bunch of times, then he can say he told them they weren't supposed to be shooting any bad guys.

I think open carry is a bad idea in a place of business, unless it's a gun store or something like that. Too many people are anti gun and it might run off business. On the other hand, I think concealed carry is perfectly fine as long as you're willing to use it to defend yourself and others. It would be worth getting fired to still be alive to go work somewhere else.

My thought on reading this is that if it were me;

I would take this to believe that I have permission to carry.

I would carry concealed.

My co-workers that are open carrying can be the decoys.

Liberty isn't to worried about getting fired when it comes down to crunch time.