Odd traffic stop yesterday.

[mikesrex]

i have been pulled over for going a little over the limit twice in the past 4 years since having a CHL.

both times i had my insurance card, DL and CHL easily accessible so the officer would see it as he walked to the car. I know these guys may be nervous and have no clue what kind of person I am, so I keep both hands on the wheel with one hand holding my licenses and insurance.

one time the officer asked me if I had my handgun on me. I said yes, and he asked me to leave it in the car where it was and step outside to talk. He run my license to show I had no warrants or anything, and let me go with a warning.

the next time the same thing happened at first, but this officer asked to see them. He unloaded the two handguns I had in the car and run the serial numbers. After the check came back ok he gave them back to me, unloaded, and told me to have a nice day.

I thought about it for a while, since I wasn't sure whether I liked him running my serial numbers on my handguns. After much thought, I decided I liked the fact he did that since there is a chance that with that policy being in place, some people who's handguns have been stolen in the past may get their stuff back.

[spud]

Thanks for all of the replys. Many good points. I Do think I should contact them about how he handled the firearm. But I don't want to be put on the bad guy list. This is my home town. Any ideas?

[spud]

If the gun reports back stolen...then what? Arrest?

That is why I only carry pistols that were bought new in box. I thought of that right after I bought a XD from a gun show. Needless to say, It does not get carried much.

[KBCraig]

Officers who routinely disarm CHLs, or who disarm them in order to run serial numbers, are exceeding their authority.

The authority to disarm CHLs is narrowly defined in Government Code chapter 411:

§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.


There is no authority to disarm a CHL unless the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

[spud]

So should this be reported?

[KBCraig]

So should this be reported?

I would write a letter to the chief, quoting the law, and asking that officer training emphasize what their authority allows, and what it doesn't. Ask for a reply with word of the actions taken.

[Lucky45]

Officers who routinely disarm CHLs, or who disarm them in order to run serial numbers, are exceeding their authority.

The authority to disarm CHLs is narrowly defined in Government Code chapter 411:

§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.


There is no authority to disarm a CHL unless the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

My question is are you forgetting "A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties." Like has said before, if that is standard procedure for his dept, then wouldn't it be part of his official duty. I don't see how it could be excessive. Personally, I think greeting a LEO walking up to your car with the fact of you having a firearm, would raise alarms in most people brains. No, Hi!!!, Hello, What's up? No hug or nothing. That would cause the LEO to fall into the necessary for protection mode which is what he did. I know some do it to preempt the discovery, but just hand over the license and let them take the lead.
I got pulled over late last year (posted in Encounter section) with 1 headlight, cop u-turned and pulled over. I turned on dome light and just sat there. When he walked up, I rolled down window and he asked for license, etc. and I gave him both cards but didn't have insurance papers. He asked where gun was, I nodded right side and he said ok and went back to car. He came back, I still had no insurance and he gave me back my cards and said just get headlight fix and said goodnight. No warning, no ticket.

[BrassMonkey]

Not with consent he wouldn't...

Maybe he thought he would find two pounds of meth...

Maybe he thought he'd find Jimmy Hoffa too, but he should still need a decent reason to initiate a search.

[flintknapper]

Not with consent he wouldn't...

Maybe he thought he would find two pounds of meth...

Maybe he thought he'd find Jimmy Hoffa too, but he should still need a decent reason to initiate a search.

No kidding.....

[KBCraig]

§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.

My question is are you forgetting "A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties."

No, I'm not. "Lawful" must be based in the law, and must be Constitutional. Just because it's department SOP doesn't make it Constitutional, nor does it mean it's based in the law.

If it was department-wide SOP to pull over and search every (fill in the blank) seen, it would be neither lawful nor constitutional.

Kevin

[spud]

I have been pulled over once before in Lewisville and the office was nice as can be. We even talked guns for a minute. I will be writing a letter today of the events and send it to the chief.

[Lucky45]

No, I'm not. "Lawful" must be based in the law, and must be Constitutional. Just because it's department SOP doesn't make it Constitutional, nor does it mean it's based in the law.

If it was department-wide SOP to pull over and search every (fill in the blank) seen, it would be neither lawful nor constitutional.

Kevin

On the second part of your response, you are making a big stretch because that has been address in case law already with "PROBABLE CAUSE." So that would NEVER be a SOP for a LEO to search anytime and everywhere. Catching at straws, now.

Then on 1st issue, a LEO is sworn in and given the authority to uphold the law and carry out his duties which is given to him by law. So how is not lawful if it is state law that he can disarm as part of carrying out his duties.

[flintknapper]

No, I'm not. "Lawful" must be based in the law, and must be Constitutional. Just because it's department SOP doesn't make it Constitutional, nor does it mean it's based in the law.

If it was department-wide SOP to pull over and search every (fill in the blank) seen, it would be neither lawful nor constitutional.

Kevin

Then on 1st issue, a LEO is sworn in and given the authority to uphold the law and carry out his duties which is given to him by law. So how is not lawful if it is state law that he can disarm as part of carrying out his duties.

It IS lawful for the officer to disarm you UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

Note: There is no period after the words "any time"...and that the conditions the officer may disarm you are stated immediately thereafter.


§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.


Also, if "Reasonably believes it is necessary" is never challenged....then it could easily be abused by LEO/DA.

I have been stopped twice in the 10+ years I've been carrying and neither time did the officer give more than a cursory glance at my
CHL and then return it to me. I live in a small town, know most of the LEO here..and respect them for the job they do. I can see how it might different somewhere else though.

[stroo]

I don't believe this is SOP for the Lewisville Police. I dealt with one about 6 months ago although in an accident situation, informed him of my CHL and that was the end of it. It also would seem like a very odd SOP to leave a weapon on the hood or trunk of a cruiser regardless of neighborhood.

So it sounds to me like one of two things was going on. Either you, your car or both fit either a description of someone they were looking for or a profile indicating suspicious activity, or this officer was off the reservation on some kind of power trip. Hard to know which without being there. If it were the latter, then you were very unwise to allow him to search your car, because that is also the type of officer who is the one in a million who will plant evidence. Be happy that you got off with a warning.