30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
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30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Many of the school campuses (and probably all) in the city I live in have 30.06/07 signs posted at the gates and building entry ways. These are public schools in a fairly large school district.
I thought this was odd. Or is this common practice? It just seemed to me the signs were kind of redundant and unnecessary (legally). Why do they post these signs when, by state law, it is already illegal for a person with a license to carry inside schools?
I'm just curious by nature and like to understand the reasoning behind things. Do they post these signs out of ignorance because they think they need to in order to legally ban concealed/open carry? Or do they legally have to post these even though they are a school? Or maybe they are posting them sort of as "an extra measure", so to speak, in order to quash any possible lingering assumptions a license holder might have about the legality of carrying on campus?
And as a side note, not that I care to or I ever would, but theoretically, since these signs are invalid as far as their legal intentions go, what would happen if they were challenged legally? It would make no sense to do so because the restrictions would still exist, but would it be a legitimate challenge due to the conflict in statues and so on?
I thought this was odd. Or is this common practice? It just seemed to me the signs were kind of redundant and unnecessary (legally). Why do they post these signs when, by state law, it is already illegal for a person with a license to carry inside schools?
I'm just curious by nature and like to understand the reasoning behind things. Do they post these signs out of ignorance because they think they need to in order to legally ban concealed/open carry? Or do they legally have to post these even though they are a school? Or maybe they are posting them sort of as "an extra measure", so to speak, in order to quash any possible lingering assumptions a license holder might have about the legality of carrying on campus?
And as a side note, not that I care to or I ever would, but theoretically, since these signs are invalid as far as their legal intentions go, what would happen if they were challenged legally? It would make no sense to do so because the restrictions would still exist, but would it be a legitimate challenge due to the conflict in statues and so on?
Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Because a school is listed as a prohibited place in 46.03, then they can post 30.06/30.07 signs, even though they are not really needed. They just can't try to enforce them on anything other than the legally defined 'premises' which is a building or portion of a building.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Not necessary. Carry by a LTC holder is already an offense under 46.03 (a) (1).
Native Texan Philippians 2:3-4
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training." - Archiloches (650 BC)
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training." - Archiloches (650 BC)
Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
When you say gates do you mean like to the parking lot? I don't think the parking lots would be off limit unless there was a school activity going on in them. The buildings technically don't need to be posted as they are really off limits to all firearms, not just handguns held by LTC holders.
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
If post on-building, then as SRO said, they are just reminder and not needed. If they are posted at the entrance of the parking lot, they are not enforceable if the firearm carried (or left in the car) on the parking lot. End of Story.koine2002 wrote:I sub a lot for Dallas ISD--mostly high school with a bit of middle school. Every school is posted with both signs. I asked an SRO about it. She said that while it is statutorily impermissible to carry past the doors, it's an extra reminder in case someone might've forgotten about the law or if they forgot their gun is on them.
For the record, while I wouldn't be breaking any laws for having my gun in my car, it is a violation of the employment agreement and is therefore a firable offense. The parking lot law exempts school districts. I only sub at schools that I know and where there is off-campus parking within a block of campus. It's easier to get out of there at dismissal, anyway.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member
Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Our school district posts both, in all their full legal size glory. Not because they have to, but as a reminder as has already been posted.
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
How many people are getting busted with guns at airport security?
30.ought signs on schools are for the benefit of those same folks.
30.ought signs on schools are for the benefit of those same folks.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
So it's for the politicians.....RoyGBiv wrote:How many people are getting busted with guns at airport security?
30.ought signs on schools are for the benefit of those same folks.
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lay brother in the order of St. John Moses Browning
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Uh how do you forget your carrying a gun? Inquiring minds wanna know
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
When you've reached the mindset that carrying daily and everywhere you go is normal, wearing a handgun is like carrying your wallet, and it is the "no carry" places that are weird. It's there for when you need it, and otherwise not in the conscience mind. More than once I've had a sudden thrill when I realized I couldn't tell if I had my gun on or not (I did) -- because it's presence was so familiar, I could not feel it any more.crazy2medic wrote:Uh how do you forget your carrying a gun? Inquiring minds wanna know
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
ELB wrote:When you've reached the mindset that carrying daily and everywhere you go is normal, wearing a handgun is like carrying your wallet, and it is the "no carry" places that are weird. It's there for when you need it, and otherwise not in the conscience mind. More than once I've had a sudden thrill when I realized I couldn't tell if I had my gun on or not (I did) -- because it's presence was so familiar, I could not feel it any more.crazy2medic wrote:Uh how do you forget your carrying a gun? Inquiring minds wanna know
After years of carrying, It's like your watch. You are not always aware of it, but you are when you need it.
It's like:
I'm more aware of not having it on when I drive somewhere and see my wrist, & notice/become aware >> "hey, I forgot my watch" than I am *always* aware that I am wearing my watch.
And yep, I hate to admit it, but I've ended up at the hardware store twice this year at the checkout stand, with 2 guns and no wallet, I had to run home and get my wallet I'd leave in my "church pants" from the day before. I'd move my guns to my Monday Pants and forget to move the wallet.
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Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
I carry a full size 1911 double stack, just can't ever envision not knowing it's there.
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
Re: 30.06 and 30.07 posted - at elementary schools?
Sometimes I have to do a quick check to make sure my Shield is in place. I do about everything with it on and sometimes momentarly forget. Our schools are not posted other than a sign at each parking lot entrance that says, "Attention - for the protection of our students some of the staff are allowed to carry concealed weapons."