Florida road rager takes out motorcyclists

[TexasFlash]

Floriduh road rager
"A Florida man described as a "habitual traffic offender" was behind bars Tuesday after police said he was seemingly caught on video mowing down a couple on a motorcycle with his car."
I've been open carrying on my motorcycle; if this happened to me and my wife, I think I would have been drawing as I got up from the pavement and emptying my magazine...
Dave

[thatguyoverthere]

... I think I would have been drawing as I got up from the pavement and emptying my magazine...

Probably would not be a good idea legally speaking at that point, but that certainly would have been my desire as well.

Couple on the bike were extremely vulnerable. Glad the riders were ok, but the car driver could have very easily killed someone. He knew that, and obviously did not care, because at the point that his car was bouncing up and over something, he didn't know if he was bouncing up over the bike, or a body, or both.

I would say he is an extreme danger to society. He needs (and I hope he gets) serious prison time. No probation, no suspended license, no weekend lockup. Felony conviction resulting in a nice, looooong stay in PRISON!

[Javier730]

Scary stuff. Hope he gets the maximum sentence.

[AJSully421]

The true purpose of prison is to segregate those who are a danger to society at large because they refuse to "follow the rules" or behave in a manner conducive to civilized society - to the point that their actions cannot be mitigated by other means.

The fact that this guy is "a habitual traffic offender" and that his license was suspended at the time, yet he was still driving... he needs two counts of attempted murder and to cool his jets in the state pen for about 10 years. We tried some intermediate sanctions for his criminal behavior (suspended DL) and those were not effective.

He gone.

[LTCTLB]

You just cannot fix stupid! I'd call that attempted murder or at least vehicular assault.

[MechAg94]

Now Vance, of Land O'Lakes, Florida, is being held without bond and charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon (the car), leaving the scene of an accident that involved injury, and one count of being a habitual traffic offender.

Sounds like he was driving recklessly and forced the bikes off the road. When they caught up at a light, there was a confrontation. Looking at the video, it looks like he was knocking the bike aside to get by so he could drive off. The couple was on the bike at the time and were knocked off. I would say the charges fit the crime. Not attempted murder, but definitely battery.

We are only hearing the side of the story from the motorcycle riders, but I am not sure that matters in this case.

[gemini]

You just cannot fix stupid! I'd call that attempted murder or at least vehicular assault.

I agree. Lock that worthless excuse for a human up and throw away the key.

[psijac]

When a judge suspends some license they just get in the car and drive anyway. They need to remove everything below his knees so he physically cannot drive

[vjallen75]

Sounds like he was driving recklessly and forced the bikes off the road. When they caught up at a light, there was a confrontation. Looking at the video, it looks like he was knocking the bike aside to get by so he could drive off. The couple was on the bike at the time and were knocked off. I would say the charges fit the crime. Not attempted murder, but definitely battery.

We are only hearing the side of the story from the motorcycle riders, but I am not sure that matters in this case.

I agree, I watched the video several times. He does seem to be trying to drive off, I think once you feel a bike under your car you've gone too far. I don't think he tried to kill the people when they were stopped, not sure about while they were driving. We can never see intent in videos unfortunately.

I'm glad the bikers didn't have more serious injuries.

[Beiruty]

I would have decided it is was aggravated assault with deadly object (vehicle), justifying deadly response. Texas laws

[Soccerdad1995]

I would have decided it is was aggravated assault with deadly object (vehicle), justifying deadly response. Texas laws

But there still may have been a problem with using deadly force after the assault had concluded and the perp was driving away. I think you are authorized to use deadly force to prevent or stop aggravate assault, not to kill the perp after the assault is over.

[LucasMcCain]

I think the guy should spend the remainder of his life in prison.

That said, I really can't think of a possible scenario that fits what we see in the video that would justify use of deadly force under Texas law. I don't know anything about Florida law, so I can't comment on that. However, the bikers had already had an altercation with the cager, so they are now following up on it. You don't get to pick fights when you carry a gun. You don't have to retreat, but you don't get to follow someone, yell at them, and then shoot them when they get mad and try to harm you. That's just not how it works. This is one of the reasons I try very hard not to use my middle finger in an inflammatory fashion when driving. Especially when I'm on my motorcycle.

Scenario 1: I'm on my bike and some guy road rages because he doesn't like bikers. He gets way too close to me coming up to a light. He then gets out of his car and comes at me with a crowbar. I have nowhere I can go, so I shoot him. The whole thing is videoed. I'm fine.

Scenario 2: I'm on my bike and some guy road rages because he doesn't like bikers. He gets way too close to me coming up to a light. I give him the finger. He then gets out of his car and comes at me with a crowbar. I have nowhere I can go, so I shoot him. The whole thing is videoed. I may go to prison.

Most people in DFW are really cool to me when I'm out on the bike. Cooler than when I'm in my car, actually. However, you always have those people who hate bikers and treat you like crap. The thing to remember is that they are in a big heavy metal cage, and you are not. If they are a jerk to you or driving unsafely around you, get away from them. Don't follow them. Don't antagonize them. Don't make it worse. There is just no good that can come from it. Put some distance between you and them and get on with your life if at all possible. The bikers don't appear to have been the bad guys in this situation, but they do appear to have reacted the wrong way. Sorry for the long post, but I dealt with a similar situation over the weekend. I just dealt with it differently, which is why I'm not on the news.

[sugar land dave]

UPDATE: The Florida Highway Patrol has amended the charges against Robert Vance. He is now charged with two counts of attempted murder. Vance is still charged with leaving the scene of a crash with injury and driving with a suspended license. His bond is $115,000.

http://wfla.com/2016/05/31/habitual-tra ... otorcycle/

[Beiruty]

I would have decided it is was aggravated assault with deadly object (vehicle), justifying deadly response. Texas laws

But there still may have been a problem with using deadly force after the assault had concluded and the perp was driving away. I think you are authorized to use deadly force to prevent or stop aggravate assault, not to kill the perp after the assault is over.

Correct. The only thing is that at what time you decide that I am going to die if I do not act? Wait too long maybe hurt badly or die, wait to little, you may over-react for no valid reason.

[Countryside]

"Vance has an extensive criminal history that includes two stints in state prison. He’s been convicted previously on drug, burglary and felony traffic charges out of Brevard County."

What was he doing free? With that kind of history he should still be in the pen.