Asking for a friend

[SHogun62]

In Texas a felon can own a firearm for home defense only after 5 years from his disposition date. No range time, or any other firearm using. It is still against federal law though kinda like the marijuana dispensaries were (or are).

I'm curious about the definition of premises, and whether it includes land as well as buildings. If the person lived on 10+ acres out in the boonies, then they could at least get in some practice, assuming that they are OK anywhere on their own land, and not just in a building.

Actually, he technically wouldn't even be covered on 10+ acres. Bearing in mind that the law is at the discretion of the responding officer, I did look up the requirement for having a range on one's property a while back. I don't recall the precise statute, but I'm sure with a bit more time than I have currently, I could find it again. I don't recall the limit for handguns, but for "long guns", the land requirement is "50 contiguous acres". I would also wager a non law school educated guess that if he were to be authorized a weapon for the purpose of home defense only, he would be restricted to the limits of his property in general.

Mind you, that's all state stuff, we all know what the federal statues say.

My .02

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm curious as to how long, "a long time ago," is? How old is he now? I'm all for a persons' constitutional rights, but a better question is; Would any of you reading this post feel comfortable with him owning a gun, considering his past?

He's 41 years old. As I said in my OP, these convictions were 12 and 19 years ago. Personally, yes, I would be comfortable with him owning a handgun or shotgun for home defense. I've known him for probably about 4 or 5 years now. He's my electrician (gainfully employed as long as I've known him), and he has been in my home several times. He is separated from his wife, but he has visitation rights with his son, whom he adores. He and his wife are on reasonably good terms, and there is some hope of reconciliation in their marriage. His son is a great little kid. My only concerns about an AR15 for him (which is what he originally asked me about) are (A) that he'd naturally want to go to the range with it, and might have an LEO "interview" between his home and range, and there might be issues with an AR in possession of a felon; and (B) the current political climate and a felon in possession might fall on him like a ton of bricks if that were to happen.

By the way, my friend could use some prayer for those so inclined. A couple of years ago, he had a tumor removed from one of his kidneys. Recent tests have shown that the tumor may be back, and if it is, he'll have to have that kidney removed. He's just had a biopsy a little earlier today and he is understandably a little scared of what it might show. He said he'll find out sometime between next Tuesday and next Friday.

(EDITED TO CORRECT MY FRIEND'S AGE....)

[ScottDLS]

I believe he should make every effort to get his "rights restored" at the State level (assuming that is where he was convicted). The President cannot pardon someone for a State crime. The approach would be to get the felony convictions pardoned, expunged, set aside, etc. There are a number of ways to do that in Texas.

Assuming that is not possible I really recommend against buying one in a private sale for use at home. This is a federal felony...and precisely what everyone (including the NRA) is talking about when they say "we should enforce the laws on the books....". No actually, we should repeal some of these dumb laws "on the books", but since that ain't happening, I'd hate to see a reformed person go to prison for a violation.

[The Annoyed Man]

Thank you all for the answers. You're all pretty much confirming what I thought to be the case in so far as the consequences, as well as the restoration of rights channel. I gave him a link to this thread so that he could follow the discussion.

ScottDLS, I agree.

Thanks again everyone.

[troglodyte]

Actually, he technically wouldn't even be covered on 10+ acres. Bearing in mind that the law is at the discretion of the responding officer, I did look up the requirement for having a range on one's property a while back. I don't recall the precise statute, but I'm sure with a bit more time than I have currently, I could find it again. I don't recall the limit for handguns, but for "long guns", the land requirement is "50 contiguous acres".
My .02

The is no restriction from the State level. Rural areas may be regulated if they are in subdivisions.

Sec. 235.022. AUTHORITY TO REGULATE. To promote the public safety, the commissioners court of a county by order may prohibit or otherwise regulate the discharge of firearms on lots that are 10 acres or smaller and are located in the unincorporated area of the county in a subdivision.

[longhorn86]

In Texas a felon can own a firearm for home defense only after 5 years from his disposition date. No range time, or any other firearm using.

Could you please quote the statutes that outline this?

Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.

Thank you.

[Javier730]

In Texas a felon can own a firearm for home defense only after 5 years from his disposition date. No range time, or any other firearm using. It is still against federal law though kinda like the marijuana dispensaries were (or are).

I'm curious about the definition of premises, and whether it includes land as well as buildings. If the person lived on 10+ acres out in the boonies, then they could at least get in some practice, assuming that they are OK anywhere on their own land, and not just in a building.

Notice how they have their definition for "family", "household", and "member of household" but not "premises" in this section.

Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.
(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the later of:
(1) the date of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the misdemeanor; or
(2) the date of the person's release from community supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor.
(c) A person, other than a peace officer, as defined by Section 1.07, actively engaged in employment as a sworn, full-time paid employee of a state agency or political subdivision, who is subject to an order issued under Section 6.504 or Chapter 85, Family Code, under Article 17.292 or Chapter 7A, Code of Criminal Procedure, or by another jurisdiction as provided by Chapter 88, Family Code, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm after receiving notice of the order and before expiration of the order.
(d) In this section, "family," "household," and "member of a household" have the meanings assigned by Chapter 71, Family Code.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a felony of the third degree. An offense under Subsection (b) or (c) is a Class A misdemeanor.
(f) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this state, another state, or the United States is, except as provided by Subsection (g), a felony if, at the time it is committed, the offense:
(1) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;
(2) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law of this state as a felony; or
(3) is punishable by confinement for one year or more in a penitentiary.
(g) An offense is not considered a felony for purposes of Subsection (f) if, at the time the person possesses a firearm, the offense:
(1) is not designated by a law of this state as a felony; and
(2) does not contain all the elements of any offense designated by a law of this state as a felony.

It is not in the same section but there is a definition for "premises" in this chapter but it says "for the purposes of this section."

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

If the same applies to the other section, I would say a felon shooting on his acreage would not be legal as the section defines premises as being used as living quarters. Maybe an indoor range with some beds. IANAL.

[RPBrown]

I am going to throw a monkey wrench into all of this.
We know that the feds say no but Texas says he can have one in his home after 5 years. However, he cannot purchase one from a dealer, and as a private seller, if we know about his past, we cannot sell to him.
With this in mind, is he supposed to lie to a private seller in order to purchase a gun????

[Javier730]

I am going to throw a monkey wrench into all of this.
We know that the feds say no but Texas says he can have one in his home after 5 years. However, he cannot purchase one from a dealer, and as a private seller, if we know about his past, we cannot sell to him.
With this in mind, is he supposed to lie to a private seller in order to purchase a gun????

One of my first pistols I bought was at the Saxet. The guy selling had a table and had a sign that said private sale. His only requirement was that I show him a Texas ID.

If you are not sure about a guy you can either not sell it to him; have him fill a bill of sale stating he is not a person who cannot own, buy, receive, etc. firearms or run his background. As for lying to a seller about being a felon, that is up to the buyers ethics.

[TreyHouston]

I would tell your frient to go in and try to buy one. I am not the one to sit and twiddle my thumbs thinking about the what if's.... You may not know how to get there just keep taking one step after another and you'll eventually get it done

He would have to get it through a private sale and have it delivered to his home.

I recant my statement. especially if this is a pvt sale

[ScottDLS]

As I suggested earlier and TAM agreed, it would be a really bad idea (i.e. violation of Forum Rule #3) to encourage said reformed felon to purchase a firearm in a private sale at a gun show or otherwise.

[puma guy]

There's this.

Under Title 18, Section 921(a)(3) of the United States Code, "antique firearms" are specifically excluded from the definition of "firearm" as follows:

"The term ''firearm'' means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Title 18, Section 921(a)(16) then defines "antique firearm" as follows:

"The term 'antique firearm' means -

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

[Javier730]

As I suggested earlier and TAM agreed, it would be a really bad idea (i.e. violation of Forum Rule #3) to encourage said reformed felon to purchase a firearm in a private sale at a gun show or otherwise.

ScottDLS, I agree we should not encourage a reformed felon to purchase a firearm but TAM asked for some info and whether right or wrong he got the legality of it. Just like the marijuana dispensaries when they first came out (unsure if the law has changed since) it was legal on the state level not on the federal. This is a topic that needs to be addressed and possibly reworded at the federal level. It should be up to the state to decide this in my opinion.

What I am about to say is my opinion and if it's against forum rules mods please remove as it is not my intention to break any rules or stir anything up.

If I were a reformed felon in Texas and was looking for a home defense firearm, I would follow the states rules on obtaining one. If I ever needed to use it, it would be because some bad people were about to put my and my families lives in danger. The fact that I might put myself in legal problems would not be considered if someone was about to cause harm to my wife and son.

It's been said before and I'm gonna to say it again. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.