Texas State Fair

[kg5ie]

Interesting visit to the State Fair last Friday. My wife and I arrived a little before the 10:00 opening. I already had my license out as I approached the gate and noted the 30.07 posting. The little girl with the wand quickly wanted to know why I set her wand off, so I showed her my plastic. She said: "So you are carrying a gun?". I replied yes. She said I would need to go to the next gate and see Security. I proceeded over to the next gate and presented my license to a young man dressed in a black and grey security uniform. He told me he did not need to see my drivers license and proceeded to wand me. He did not find the gun. He told us to have a good day at the Fair. :-(

I proceeded to the closest DPD manned station and had a great chat with the on-duty Sgt. He immediately headed over to the gate we came in through.

[Lynyrd]

Interesting visit to the State Fair last Friday. My wife and I arrived a little before the 10:00 opening. I already had my license out as I approached the gate and noted the 30.07 posting. The little girl with the wand quickly wanted to know why I set her wand off, so I showed her my plastic. She said: "So you are carrying a gun?". I replied yes. She said I would need to go to the next gate and see Security. I proceeded over to the next gate and presented my license to a young man dressed in a black and grey security uniform. He told me he did not need to see my drivers license and proceeded to wand me. He did not find the gun. He told us to have a good day at the Fair. :-(

I proceeded to the closest DPD manned station and had a great chat with the on-duty Sgt. He immediately headed over to the gate we came in through.

You made that security guard's day.

[Barron76]

Gotta love that Fair security!

[locke_n_load]

I wouldn't have said anything. But then again, I'm all for unlicensed carry.

[AJSully421]

So, there was an actual 30.07 sign posted at the fair entrance?

[gemini]

So, there was an actual 30.07 sign posted at the fair entrance?

from the "bigtex.com" website......

............"State Fair of Texas prohibits Fair attendees (including LTC holders) from openly carrying handguns while at the Fair. If an individual attempts to enter the Fair with an openly carried handgun, he or she will not be allowed to enter the Fair unless he or she conceals the handgun (if he or she has a valid LTC) or secures the handgun in his or her vehicle or at some offsite location. If an LTC holder enters the Fair with a concealed handgun and then begins to openly carry the handgun, he or she will be asked to either conceal the handgun or to leave the Fair.

The State Fair of Texas has received inquiries about its decision not to allow open carry of handguns during the Fair and would like to clear up some of the questions that have been raised. It is important to understand that the State Fair of Texas is—and always has been—a private entity. The Fair leases property from the City of Dallas but is not part of the City or controlled by the City. Also, many of you have read or heard recently about a private organization that may begin operating Fair Park as a whole. That is a different organization that is not related to the Fair................"

[gemini]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

[gemini]

3 posts in a row.....wow, I'm entertaining myself. After posting the above, I moved on through the topics...then to the next discussion...OC.
There, I find this topic has been beat to death. I'm sorry I posted info already on this site. Hahaha. I should have known you guys would
have been all over this already. Nothing to see here.....carry on.

[AJSully421]

So, there was an actual 30.07 sign posted at the fair entrance?

from the "bigtex.com" website......

............"State Fair of Texas prohibits Fair attendees (including LTC holders) from openly carrying handguns while at the Fair. If an individual attempts to enter the Fair with an openly carried handgun, he or she will not be allowed to enter the Fair unless he or she conceals the handgun (if he or she has a valid LTC) or secures the handgun in his or her vehicle or at some offsite location. If an LTC holder enters the Fair with a concealed handgun and then begins to openly carry the handgun, he or she will be asked to either conceal the handgun or to leave the Fair.

The State Fair of Texas has received inquiries about its decision not to allow open carry of handguns during the Fair and would like to clear up some of the questions that have been raised. It is important to understand that the State Fair of Texas is—and always has been—a private entity. The Fair leases property from the City of Dallas but is not part of the City or controlled by the City. Also, many of you have read or heard recently about a private organization that may begin operating Fair Park as a whole. That is a different organization that is not related to the Fair................"

Two whole paragraphs... and still did not answer my question.

Let's try again:

Was there an actual, physical, present in the known and observable universe, 30.07 sign at the fair entrance that you saw with your own eyes? "Yes" or "No" are the only possible responses.

[remanifest]

Let's try again:

Was there an actual, physical, present in the known and observable universe, 30.07 sign at the fair entrance that you saw with your own eyes? "Yes" or "No" are the only possible responses.

I already had my license out as I approached the gate and noted the 30.07 posting.

Seems so.

[AJSully421]

Let's try again:

Was there an actual, physical, present in the known and observable universe, 30.07 sign at the fair entrance that you saw with your own eyes? "Yes" or "No" are the only possible responses.

I already had my license out as I approached the gate and noted the 30.07 posting.

Seems so.

I agree, but in another forum, this same topic is being discussed and a couple of guys have said he didn't see any signs saying no open carry... so if this feller saw an actual 30.07 sign, that would be news worthy.

[kg5ie]

Yes. There was an obvious 30.07 sign.

[RoyGBiv]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

VERY telling that they selectively chose to stop reading after the part of that opinion letter with which they agreed....

Reading on..... https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

The AG appears to agree that the private entity would not be subject to civil penalty per 411.209, however, he also seems to agree that a license holder WOULD have the exceptions described in 30.06 and 30.07, since the property "is owned or leased by a governmental entity".

Now.... Who is volunteering to be the test case?

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice. IANAL.

[AF-Odin]

Bill is correct. I too was at the Fair on Friday entering through Gate 10. There were very large signs which were quite observable that "appeared to be" 30.07, but I did not get close enough to them to read for specific "legal' language. My post in another thread details the "Security Theater" of the State Fair Security Personnel who paid no attention to their beeping wand as they passed it over my 9mm Shield and extra magazine and did not even look at my LTC after i repeatedly tried to show it to them.

[TVGuy]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

VERY telling that they selectively chose to stop reading after the part of that opinion letter with which they agreed....

Reading on..... https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

The AG appears to agree that the private entity would not be subject to civil penalty per 411.209, however, he also seems to agree that a license holder WOULD have the exceptions described in 30.06 and 30.07, since the property "is owned or leased by a governmental entity".

Now.... Who is volunteering to be the test case?

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice. IANAL.

This opinion creates a loophole that needs to be fixed in the next session.