Dallas Man Shot After Domestic Disturbance

[matchstick]

He was "kicking in" the door, that is not banging on the door. I would have fired under the same circumstances.

I understand. I wouldn't... I wouldn't shoot THROUGH a door to stop someone unless they were trying to shoot me.

And bear in mind, he didn't shoot at the guy... he thought he was just firing a warning shot... so obviously he still thought there was an opportunity for the guy to stop and leave. He UNINTENTIONALLY shot the deceased... hence the issues.

[Charles L. Cotton]

This event is tragic for both the homeowner and a man who apparently was a nice guy, until he mixed alcohol and medication.

I want to thank everyone for this discussion. Although our opinions vary, I think this is a valuable thread that could be beneficial to all of us.

Chas.

[carlson1]

I would have to agree with Mr. Cotton. This is one of those that is easy to say what you would do while you are setting in your chair behind a computer drinking coffee. The truth is I would have no ideal what I would do until I was there. I have been through three shootings and neither time did I pull the trigger on my weapon. On the first one shooting I ran through a barb wire fence trying to take cover. After it was over and we had suspects in custody I was taken to ER and had 18 stitches. At THE TIME of running through the fence I never knew I was cut. Adrenaline is an amazing thing. Sad for the dead and sad for the man who had to make a SPLIT second decision to shoot.

EDIT: This is exactly what Mr. Cotton means when he makes the statement "Decide NOW what you are going to do."

[matchstick]

I'd like to add that we have the luxury of discussing and considering this in hindsight without anyone trying to break down our door while it's going on, and not at 4 in the morning after being startled out of bed.

Now, while I'm normal and calm, I clearly believe that I wouldn't shoot through a door at someone.

In the situation... well... things are different. So I definitely appreciate the position the homeowner was in.

But regardless, I still think warning shots are a bad idea. ;)

[frankie_the_yankee]

He was "kicking in" the door, that is not banging on the door. I would have fired under the same circumstances.

I understand. I wouldn't... I wouldn't shoot THROUGH a door to stop someone unless they were trying to shoot me.

And bear in mind, he didn't shoot at the guy... he thought he was just firing a warning shot... so obviously he still thought there was an opportunity for the guy to stop and leave. He UNINTENTIONALLY shot the deceased... hence the issues.

And if the shooting really was unintentional, the homeowner could be blabbing himself into prison. As another pointed out, it is conceivable that a Manslaughter charge could be brought.

Warning shots are not a good move.

The guy needs to clam up and retain a lawyer. Otherwise, he had better pray that the DA and grand jury are sympathetic.

[Wildscar]

I want to thank everyone for this discussion. Although our opinions vary, I think this is a valuable thread that could be beneficial to all of us.

This here is also a good discussion that is a parallel of this thread.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... highlight=

[govnor]

He was "kicking in" the door, that is not banging on the door. I would have fired under the same circumstances.

Not only that, he was in a "drunken rage" after beating up his girlfriend. Not that the homeowner knew that, but I'm sure it wasn't a polite knock on the back door for some sympathy at four am.

[GlockandLoad]

Maybe I am wrong in saying this but if someone was pounding and kicking at my door in the middle of the night, I told them to go away and they continued to kick at the door. I would pop a shot of at them.

I am not going to wait till they come in and put me and my wifes lives in danger. If I feel like my life is in immediate danger if this person comes into my home, I will fire on them through a door.

[CHLSteve]

Is anyone still reading this thread? Ok then...

My first inclination is to agree with many of you--don't shoot a door at a target you can't see!

However, I'm trying to put myself into the shooter's frame of mind, and I can see it differently:

You wake up with your wife frantically tell you someone "is trying to break in to your house". She's probably upset, panicky, and possibly crying. You grab your gun and head out to the door where you can hear the pounding, shouting at the man to leave you alone and go away. Maybe the man kicks louder in frustration, and you can hear some wood fibers begin to crack in the frame. In less than a minute since you were woke from a deep sleep, you have to make the decision to shoot--who knows how many people are coming in with this guy to rob you, and or worse?

Now, if he knew it was a neighbor that should change the situation too, but it sounds like he didn't. If he did, he would have known that the high warning shot was likely to hit the guy in the head! In this regard, I don't think the man took enough time to identify the threat. I think he was still "safe" while in his house, and although legally justified, I would hope to have enough time to positively identify the man banging on my door before shooting him. I'd hate to shoot a drunk kid, prankster, lost neighbor, or other "harmless" person. Maybe I'm too cautious.

[Greybeard]

As posted in duplicate/locked thread. Apparently from New York Times ...

Musician Is Killed for Banging on a Door

By GRETEL C. KOVACH

DALLAS, Sept. 4 — A Texas rock musician was shot to death here early Monday by a neighbor who fired through a closed door, thinking he was scaring off a burglar.

The incident occurred just three days after a new law took effect strengthening the right of Texans to use deadly force to protect themselves and their property.

The musician, Jeffrey Carter Albrecht, 34, a keyboardist with Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians and the Dallas rock band Sorta, was shot in the head after he startled a man and his wife about 4 a.m. by pounding and kicking at their back door, the police said. Mr. Albrecht had just assaulted his girlfriend, who lives next door and had locked him out of her house, the police said.

The neighbor, who has not been identified by the police, was awakened by his wife’s screams that someone was breaking into their home, according to the police report. The man yelled for the person to go away, but when the pounding continued, he fired through the top of the door.

Mr. Albrecht, who was about 6-foot-5, was struck in the head.

The police said the case would be referred to a grand jury for review. Mr. Albrecht’s mother, Judith Albrecht, would not say whether she thought the neighbor should be charged with a crime.

“I think he was frightened, and I do think he could have made another choice,� Ms. Albrecht said. “I understand there are a lot of bad people, but Carter was not one of them.�

Mr. Albrecht’s girlfriend, Ryann Rathbone, said she believed he was having a bad reaction to the combination of alcohol and an antismoking drug they both had taken for a week. The drug had given them hallucinatory dreams, Ms. Rathbone said.

“This was not a drunken rage,� she said.

“Carter would never have hurt me, ever,’’ Ms. Rathbone said.

Texas has protected the right to “stand your ground� and use deadly force to protect oneself at home without first trying to retreat since 1995. And a law that took effect on Saturday expanded that so-called “castle doctrine� to apply to public spaces.

The law also expanded civil immunity and could make it more difficult for the Albrecht family or relatives of those killed in similar incidents in Texas to win a wrongful-death suit, said James Dark, executive director of the Texas State Rifle Association, which lobbied for the new law.

“These duty-to-retreat laws provide legal protection for those who are out committing criminal acts,� Mr. Dark said. Under the new Texas law, “the protection of the law falls on those who obey the law not those who violate the law.�

Texas is one of 19 states with a castle doctrine self-defense law, according to the National Rifle Association.

Marsha McCartney, president of the North Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, called Mr. Albrecht’s death “one more gun tragedy.�

“I’m sure the man who did the shooting feels terrible about it,� Ms. McCartney said, “but legally in Texas he can do exactly what he did because he feels frightened.�

Borris Miles, a Democratic state representative from Houston and a former schools police officer, opposed the legislation, which was signed into law in March.

In July, Mr. Miles confronted a robber at his home construction site and shot him in the leg. No charges were filed, but he said he still opposed the new law.

“We have a right to defend ourselves in our home. I support that and I always will,� Mr. Miles said. But the law went too far, he said, by expanding the right to use deadly force in the workplace and one’s automobile.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/u...las.html?ref=us

[govnor]

The more I hear about this, the more I think that drug might have had something to do with it. I know it says "no drinking" but so do a lot of drugs. It was a poor choice on his part, but if he really has no violent history and freaked out, it sounds very strange. I can also see him going to the bar and think "just one drink." Well, that can lead to a few more. The woman said the drug was causing them both to have "hallucinatory dreams."

People do freak out on alcohol, but I've never heard of anything like this. Especially the part where he goes to a neighbor's house and tries to break in. It sounds like he had no history with that neighbor since he didn't live there, it was his girlfriend's house.

I'm planning to stop smoking soon...I think I'll stick with the nicotine gum.

[Liberty]

I'm planning to stop smoking soon...I think I'll stick with the nicotine gum.

Cold Turkey, prayer, and a tin of Altoids kept close by seemed to do the trick. Good luck with this one. Nicotine gum never seemed to work as good as the Altoids.

[seamusTX]

Marsha McCartney, president of the North Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, called Mr. Albrecht’s death “one more gun tragedy.�

“I’m sure the man who did the shooting feels terrible about it,� Ms. McCartney said, “but legally in Texas he can do exactly what he did because he feels frightened.�

AArgh.

- Jim

[Hamourkiller]

One of my worst case scenerios is drug crazed individual attacking my family at night. What do we have here? An alcohol/drug crazed individual attacking this man's family at night.

Waiting on the door to come down?? So the alcohol/drug crazed man can get to you and yours??? Not going to happen at my house, he even gave the alcohol/drug crazed individual a verbal warning.

Did not identify target? He hit the door and the alcohol/drug crazed individual. Not bad.

Did he hit any one else? Any innocents? No only the alcohol/drug crazed individual kicking down his door. All innocents had long since fled for their lives from the alcohol/drug crazed individual.

The one who made the wrong decision is the alcohol/drug crazed individual who got head shot for his efforts. Not the home owner. He made the correct decision to stop the alcohol/drug crazed individual from gaining access to his family.

Who on this board would willingly let an alcohol/drug crazed individual gain access to you home and family? Odds are the home owner could see and hear the door failing and had to act then to keep the alcohol/drug crazed individual outside of his house.

Each situation is different, but in this one the amount of violence coming from the alcohol/drug crazed individual forced the home owner to do as he did. It was just too dangerous to let such an alcohol/drug crazed individual get past the door.

[ricor]

I have seen several threads started on theis subject and the title line is always incorrect. It should read: Drunk musician who was taking a drug that should never be mixed with alcohol beats girlfriend takes drunken rampage to neighbors house. Or something like that.