Austin ISD sign

[AR Traveler]

We had a Boy Scout thing at a church next to one of AISD's elementary schools so I parked in the school's parking lot. Here's what greeted me.





The picture could be clearer but it references Texas Penal Code Chapter 46. This is about the worst "30.06" sign I've come across yet

[HankB]

A sign like that is meaningless to a CHL holder.

The parts of the law that prohibit carrying in a school, at a school function, most sporting events, etc., are not meaningless.

[Liberty]

can a public school that receives tax payer dollars legally post a 30.06 sign at the parking lot and restrict you from carrying into the parking lot?

They can legally post the sign. The signs have no meanings, if they want to keep you out of the parking lot and sidewalks they just have to have some school activities going on their at the times they want to keep the CHLers out.

[frankie_the_yankee]

What strikes me most about this is, how can educators/administrators be so dumb?

Not only did they not figure out that they cannot legally enforce a sign at a parking lot entrance, but they are obviously blissfully ignorant of the 30.06 requirements for proper signage.

And these are the people who we pay money to teach our children?

[fizteach]

What strikes me most about this is, how can educators/administrators be so dumb?

Not only did they not figure out that they cannot legally enforce a sign at a parking lot entrance, but they are obviously blissfully ignorant of the 30.06 requirements for proper signage.

And these are the people who we pay money to teach our children?

Excuse me, but I resemble that remark. Yes, I get money to teach your children, but I hope I teach them better than to stereotype and judge others.
Ignorance of the law does not make someone dumb, just uneducated.

Have a great day.

Semper fi,

Bob

[shootthesheet]

What strikes me most about this is, how can educators/administrators be so dumb?

Not only did they not figure out that they cannot legally enforce a sign at a parking lot entrance, but they are obviously blissfully ignorant of the 30.06 requirements for proper signage.

And these are the people who we pay money to teach our children?

That is not the point. Some ignorant CHL holders will not carry there because they don't know it is meaningless. So, the school has bluffed and got its way. The ISD is not dumb. They are smart enough to know the signs will have some give up their privileges or rights by implying they have the authority to stop us. They also know compliant signs can be fought. These meaningless signs cannot because they hold no authority. Same with most non-compliant signs. They bluff us into doing what they want. That is the way I see it anyway.

[frankie_the_yankee]

That is not the point. Some ignorant CHL holders will not carry there because they don't know it is meaningless.

Oh, you mean like the instructor who taught my renewal class? Ah well, that's another thread.

So, the school has bluffed and got its way. The ISD is not dumb. They are smart enough to know the signs will have some give up their privileges or rights by implying they have the authority to stop us.

I don't think they are that smart. I suspect they are basically knee-jerk left wingers who are ignorant and/or unaware of the law. All they really know is that they don't like people carrying guns and that "people shouldn't bring guns to school". They might also be vaguely aware of the federal gun-free school zone law.

The sign looks like overkill. There's a lot of emotion in it. But very little thought.

Excuse me, but I resemble that remark.

Good Lord! You should hope not. Heck, I even hope not.

You wouldn't post a sign like that, would you?

Yes, I get money to teach your children, but I hope I teach them better than to stereotype and judge others.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I'm looking at the sign and concluding that anyone who would post such a thing shouldn't be pulling down an administrator's hefty salary.

And what's wrong with judging others and their acts? I would hope you are teaching kids to make appropriate judgements. Everything and everyone and every act are not equally good, wise, or intelligent. Kids need to learn the difference between smart and stupid, wise and foolish, etc.

Making judgements is the natural order of things. It's what people do.

Ignorance of the law does not make someone dumb, just uneducated.

I was using the word "dumb" colloquially as a synonym for "stupid" and/or "ignorant". I am aware that the correct meaning refers to one who cannot speak.

I just recoil a bit at paying stupid or ignorant people school administrators' money.

We should be getting better value for our tax dollar than that.

[nitrogen]

There's some ignorance and anger in this thread that needs to cease.

To me, that sign informs people of state/federal law.
Nothing more, nothing less.

You all need to calm down.

And those badmouthing teachers and administrators: I dare you to attempt to do their job. I'm reasonably sure you wouldn't make it a day.

[frankie_the_yankee]

There's some ignorance and anger in this thread that needs to cease.

To me, that sign informs people of state/federal law.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Does the sign ACCURATELY inform people?

[nitrogen]

I think it does.

CHLers arent allowed to carry weapons in school buildings, and that's what the sign says to me.

[frankie_the_yankee]

I think it does.

CHLers arent allowed to carry weapons in school buildings, and that's what the sign says to me.

The fine print is too fuzzy to make out. But I can read the big letters that say, "No weapons on school property". Note, not "buildings". "Property".

We all here know that that is not accurate, and goes beyond the ISD's legal authority.

[stevie_d_64]

I think it does.

CHLers arent allowed to carry weapons in school buildings, and that's what the sign says to me.

"On School Property" has always been, I guess one of those ambiguities that I believe have been evaluated to be physical structures like buildings and other facilities built up on "property" to house or conduct business, therefore off-limits to those of us who are licenced to carry in this state...

We all understand that part of the law...Yet the whole discussion of "premises" has been to determine that the parking lots are not a part of the exclusion of CHL'ers...

The wording in that sign pictured above is the epitamy of ignorance and misinterpretation of the law...Thats the way I see it...And its quite easy to see the seething attitude in that sign that is designed to create one of those "gun free zones" we hear about every other day or so...

"Whether you're licenced to carry or not"

Since they really don't need to post a sign prohibiting the carrying of a firearm inside their buildings, yet they post this sign which really doesn't mean a thing anyway...Tells me they spent money again on something that could have been spent better on educating the kids instead of scaring the heck out of them, and conditioning them to think a "sign" is going to somehow keep them safe...

Yep, I believe the actions of whomever thought this was a good idea to do is pathetic...Its not a hostile or disrespectful analysis on my part, but it is a personal opinion, and one that I feel very dissapointed in knowing there are people who are supposed to be educators first, instead of nanny-staters...

[frankie_the_yankee]

The wording in that sign pictured above is the epitamy of ignorance and misinterpretation of the law...Thats the way I see it...And its quite easy to see the seething attitude in that sign that is designed to create one of those "gun free zones" we hear about every other day or so...

"Whether you're licenced to carry or not"

Exactly!

And do they really think that some rampage killer or even a common criminal would not enter the campus while armed because of that sign?

FWIW, the sign seems to be aimed more at CHL'ers, who as we well know happen to form the most law-abiding segment of the population, than it is at rampage killers and criminals.

[Liberty]

While I understand and agree with Frankie and Stevie on this one, I also take a Darwinistic perspective on this also.

Anyone who sees that sign and is discouraged from carrying, probably not only shouldn't be carrying there, but at all. Supposedly all CHLers spent a conciderable amount of time sitting in a class learning about when and where they are permited to carry. and the consequences of carry, and self defence. Those who come away from such a class without a basic understanding of the rules and laws probably shouldn't carry until they get a better understanding. The schools in effect are performing an educational function and potentially keeping the ignorant disarmed.

As I see it anyone who is intimidated by those signs probably doesn't understand the law well enough to be safely carrying.

I also find it hard to believe that the school district didn't know what they were doing when they posted the signs. The school districts I'm familiar with don't do anything without talking to their legal council. They are within their legal rights to post these signs. It might be deceptive but it is legal.