I want to keep my guns.

[flechero]

Flechero,
I agree with most of what you said with the exception of paying more money for additional school protection.
I already pay far to much in taxes for a really bad education system.
How about this instead: We take a few of the non-core positions that have proliferated in our schools and trade them for armed guards and armed teacher training.
I'm talking about a few of the, far too many, administrators that now outnumber teachers in school districts.
Or maybe the school's "Diversity director" or "Self esteem coordinator".
I think it is far more important that our kids be safe while learning the three Rs than it is to learn about:
Global warming, Ump-teen genders, same sex marriage, or social responsibility.
I also think it is more important than a free breakfast, a free lunch or "Summer feeding".
I keep getting told that kids can't learn when they're hungry - well they can't learn when they are afraid either.

I'm even worse off- I pay very high (highest in this region) school taxes and the school we are districted for is SOOOOO BAD that we elected to put my son in a pvt Christian school. So we're paying close to $15k in school taxes and tuition for a 3rd grader.

I'm with you 100% on replacing some [unneeded] positions and replacing them with armed staff.... my point was that even with being ripped off currently, I'd still be wiling to pay more, if it meant armed staff - in any capacity because for me, it really is about the kid(s).

[philip964]

18 years old for bolt action rifle or 2 barrel shotgun.

21 years old for semi automatic handgun, pump shotgun

25 years old semi automatic rifle, automatic shotgun

No bump stocks or other rapid fire devices

50 state plus D.C. CHL license.

No off limits for CHL, except NFL stadiums, and businesses who post.

An idea like this also occurred to me but I haven't yet found any statistics on the avg age of mass shooters.

I also should try to find stats on avg age of all shooters.

I don't think age alone can be a gating factor. I know that a younger version of me was more prone to anger and emotional decisions. I trust myself much more now to stay level headed.

25 is the age that schizophrenia in men is usually already diagnosed. The 18 and 21 is already on the books in Florida, so that's really not a change. I figure there is a lot of cool weapons for a 18-25 year old still to have fun with. Yes a veteran exception, however, honorable only, and the military needs to be honest about why there was a separation. Sorry 18 to 25 your being sacrificed to the Dems to get national chl reciprocity. But 21 to 25 will have the freedom to carry in any state. Worth the wait.

I find that bump stocks are wasteful of ammunition. I'm figuring when I might really need an AR15, I will not want to waste ammunition. Bump stock buy back, no longer available to sell, no confiscation.

We so firmly believe that gun free zones are so dangerous, that everyone is concerned that NFL fans would be at risk if they were kept as gun free. Interesting that is the opposite view of I suspect most Americans. I put that in there as a joke of course we would want to protect NFL fans from mass shootings, even if they do support players who disrespect America.

I think this could get enough Democratic votes to pass. There needs to be just a little on our side to get nationwide reciprocity. We only have a little time till the next election. Needs to happen now. We only have a small window. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi voting against a ban on bump stocks.

[TheFriscoKid]

Sorry for the long winded response.

It's a good response. I am here to learn from others.

Glad to hear that. and I hope my post didn't come across as personal towards you because it wasn't meant specifically to you. I wrote "you" at one point and should have put "they." I've edited that.

After a night to think about it, I still agree that your response and commitment are commendable. At the same time though I began to think about some of the other issues. While a solution like yours makes school shootings less likely or less damaging, several new issues come to mind.

As noted in another thread - advocates and volunteers come from across the spectrum. Can enough high proficiency volunteers be found and in lacking that ability will we be willing to let in less than 100% qualified individuals to do these tasks?

Appx 100,000 schools in the US. 4-5 guards per shift - 1 shift per week, night activities - games etc 2-3 a week ends up being 40 per school to cover most well attended 'events' - that's 4 million volunteers and when we start looking at lost GDP and/or costs - it's not a realistic plan.

Besides it only covers one aspect of the problem. We still have mentally ill with weapons and many other target rich environments - malls, churches, political rallies, sporting events, colleges, unis and trade schools aren't in that number.

This also does nothing to stop suicides, and domestic violence and other gun events precipitated by 'mental health decline'.

[bblhd672]

18 years old for bolt action rifle or 2 barrel shotgun.

21 years old for semi automatic handgun, pump shotgun

25 years old semi automatic rifle, automatic shotgun

No bump stocks or other rapid fire devices

50 state plus D.C. CHL license.

No off limits for CHL, except NFL stadiums, and businesses who post.

An idea like this also occurred to me but I haven't yet found any statistics on the avg age of mass shooters.

I also should try to find stats on avg age of all shooters.

I don't think age alone can be a gating factor. I know that a younger version of me was more prone to anger and emotional decisions. I trust myself much more now to stay level headed.

25 is the age that schizophrenia in men is usually already diagnosed. The 18 and 21 is already on the books in Florida, so that's really not a change. I figure there is a lot of cool weapons for a 18-25 year old still to have fun with. Yes a veteran exception, however, honorable only, and the military needs to be honest about why there was a separation. Sorry 18 to 25 your being sacrificed to the Dems to get national chl reciprocity. But 21 to 25 will have the freedom to carry in any state. Worth the wait.

I find that bump stocks are wasteful of ammunition. I'm figuring when I might really need an AR15, I will not want to waste ammunition. Bump stock buy back, no longer available to sell, no confiscation.

We so firmly believe that gun free zones are so dangerous, that everyone is concerned that NFL fans would be at risk if they were kept as gun free. Interesting that is the opposite view of I suspect most Americans. I put that in there as a joke of course we would want to protect NFL fans from mass shootings, even if they do support players who disrespect America.

I think this could get enough Democratic votes to pass. There needs to be just a little on our side to get nationwide reciprocity. We only have a little time till the next election. Needs to happen now. We only have a small window. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi voting against a ban on bump stocks.

I don't understand why you are willing to compromise with those whose stated goals are to do away with the 2nd Amendment. You want national reciprocity so bad you'll give up other law abiding citizens' rights to keep and bear arms?

[philip964]

18 years old for bolt action rifle or 2 barrel shotgun.

21 years old for semi automatic handgun, pump shotgun

25 years old semi automatic rifle, automatic shotgun

No bump stocks or other rapid fire devices

50 state plus D.C. CHL license.

No off limits for CHL, except NFL stadiums, and businesses who post.

An idea like this also occurred to me but I haven't yet found any statistics on the avg age of mass shooters.

I also should try to find stats on avg age of all shooters.

I don't think age alone can be a gating factor. I know that a younger version of me was more prone to anger and emotional decisions. I trust myself much more now to stay level headed.

25 is the age that schizophrenia in men is usually already diagnosed. The 18 and 21 is already on the books in Florida, so that's really not a change. I figure there is a lot of cool weapons for a 18-25 year old still to have fun with. Yes a veteran exception, however, honorable only, and the military needs to be honest about why there was a separation. Sorry 18 to 25 your being sacrificed to the Dems to get national chl reciprocity. But 21 to 25 will have the freedom to carry in any state. Worth the wait.

I find that bump stocks are wasteful of ammunition. I'm figuring when I might really need an AR15, I will not want to waste ammunition. Bump stock buy back, no longer available to sell, no confiscation.

We so firmly believe that gun free zones are so dangerous, that everyone is concerned that NFL fans would be at risk if they were kept as gun free. Interesting that is the opposite view of I suspect most Americans. I put that in there as a joke of course we would want to protect NFL fans from mass shootings, even if they do support players who disrespect America.

I think this could get enough Democratic votes to pass. There needs to be just a little on our side to get nationwide reciprocity. We only have a little time till the next election. Needs to happen now. We only have a small window. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi voting against a ban on bump stocks.

I don't understand why you are willing to compromise with those whose stated goals are to do away with the 2nd Amendment. You want national reciprocity so bad you'll give up other law abiding citizens' rights to keep and bear arms?

I want to keep the right to buy an AR 15. If we don't write the bill, the Dems will, possibly as soon as next January, if not sooner.

They did in 2015, it banned almost any interesting gun you might want to own. I actually used the list as a wish list so to speak, it was so complete.

Had that bill gotten enough Republicans to get on board, Obama would have signed it and the Florida school shooter would not have been able to kill 17 last week.

So in reality, the Democratic bill would have saved those children. He would not have had the chance to kill as many with a bolt action rifle.

Yeah, the FBI not being stupid would have saved them too. But the AR15 ban would have saved those children. No doubt in my mind.

My social media is a blaze with ban the AR15, end the second amendment, kick the GOP out in November.

The GOP needs to get a head of this with their own bill. Now.

[bblhd672]

18 years old for bolt action rifle or 2 barrel shotgun.

21 years old for semi automatic handgun, pump shotgun

25 years old semi automatic rifle, automatic shotgun

No bump stocks or other rapid fire devices

50 state plus D.C. CHL license.

No off limits for CHL, except NFL stadiums, and businesses who post.

An idea like this also occurred to me but I haven't yet found any statistics on the avg age of mass shooters.

I also should try to find stats on avg age of all shooters.

I don't think age alone can be a gating factor. I know that a younger version of me was more prone to anger and emotional decisions. I trust myself much more now to stay level headed.

25 is the age that schizophrenia in men is usually already diagnosed. The 18 and 21 is already on the books in Florida, so that's really not a change. I figure there is a lot of cool weapons for a 18-25 year old still to have fun with. Yes a veteran exception, however, honorable only, and the military needs to be honest about why there was a separation. Sorry 18 to 25 your being sacrificed to the Dems to get national chl reciprocity. But 21 to 25 will have the freedom to carry in any state. Worth the wait.

I find that bump stocks are wasteful of ammunition. I'm figuring when I might really need an AR15, I will not want to waste ammunition. Bump stock buy back, no longer available to sell, no confiscation.

We so firmly believe that gun free zones are so dangerous, that everyone is concerned that NFL fans would be at risk if they were kept as gun free. Interesting that is the opposite view of I suspect most Americans. I put that in there as a joke of course we would want to protect NFL fans from mass shootings, even if they do support players who disrespect America.

I think this could get enough Democratic votes to pass. There needs to be just a little on our side to get nationwide reciprocity. We only have a little time till the next election. Needs to happen now. We only have a small window. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi voting against a ban on bump stocks.

I don't understand why you are willing to compromise with those whose stated goals are to do away with the 2nd Amendment. You want national reciprocity so bad you'll give up other law abiding citizens' rights to keep and bear arms?

I want to keep the right to buy an AR 15. If we don't write the bill, the Dems will, possibly as soon as next January, if not sooner.

They did in 2015, it banned almost any interesting gun you might want to own. I actually used the list as a wish list so to speak, it was so complete.

Had that bill gotten enough Republicans to get on board, Obama would have signed it and the Florida school shooter would not have been able to kill 17 last week.

So in reality, the Democratic bill would have saved those children. He would not have had the chance to kill as many with a bolt action rifle.

Yeah, the FBI not being stupid would have saved them too. But the AR15 ban would have saved those children. No doubt in my mind.

My social media is a blaze with ban the AR15, end the second amendment, kick the GOP out in November.

The GOP needs to get a head of this with their own bill. Now.

So you want the GOP out in front banning firearms? With friends like those, we don't need the enemy on the left.

To paraphrase that great philosopher Jean-Luc Picard: "We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!"

[oljames3]

18 years old for bolt action rifle or 2 barrel shotgun.

21 years old for semi automatic handgun, pump shotgun

25 years old semi automatic rifle, automatic shotgun

No bump stocks or other rapid fire devices

50 state plus D.C. CHL license.

No off limits for CHL, except NFL stadiums, and businesses who post.

An idea like this also occurred to me but I haven't yet found any statistics on the avg age of mass shooters.

I also should try to find stats on avg age of all shooters.

I don't think age alone can be a gating factor. I know that a younger version of me was more prone to anger and emotional decisions. I trust myself much more now to stay level headed.

25 is the age that schizophrenia in men is usually already diagnosed. The 18 and 21 is already on the books in Florida, so that's really not a change. I figure there is a lot of cool weapons for a 18-25 year old still to have fun with. Yes a veteran exception, however, honorable only, and the military needs to be honest about why there was a separation. Sorry 18 to 25 your being sacrificed to the Dems to get national chl reciprocity. But 21 to 25 will have the freedom to carry in any state. Worth the wait.

I find that bump stocks are wasteful of ammunition. I'm figuring when I might really need an AR15, I will not want to waste ammunition. Bump stock buy back, no longer available to sell, no confiscation.

We so firmly believe that gun free zones are so dangerous, that everyone is concerned that NFL fans would be at risk if they were kept as gun free. Interesting that is the opposite view of I suspect most Americans. I put that in there as a joke of course we would want to protect NFL fans from mass shootings, even if they do support players who disrespect America.

I think this could get enough Democratic votes to pass. There needs to be just a little on our side to get nationwide reciprocity. We only have a little time till the next election. Needs to happen now. We only have a small window. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi voting against a ban on bump stocks.

I don't understand why you are willing to compromise with those whose stated goals are to do away with the 2nd Amendment. You want national reciprocity so bad you'll give up other law abiding citizens' rights to keep and bear arms?

I want to keep the right to buy an AR 15. If we don't write the bill, the Dems will, possibly as soon as next January, if not sooner.

They did in 2015, it banned almost any interesting gun you might want to own. I actually used the list as a wish list so to speak, it was so complete.

Had that bill gotten enough Republicans to get on board, Obama would have signed it and the Florida school shooter would not have been able to kill 17 last week.

So in reality, the Democratic bill would have saved those children. He would not have had the chance to kill as many with a bolt action rifle.

Yeah, the FBI not being stupid would have saved them too. But the AR15 ban would have saved those children. No doubt in my mind.

My social media is a blaze with ban the AR15, end the second amendment, kick the GOP out in November.

The GOP needs to get a head of this with their own bill. Now.

So you want the GOP out in front banning firearms? With friends like those, we don't need the enemy on the left.

To paraphrase that great philosopher Jean-Luc Picard: "We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!"

"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!"

[jason812]

I want to keep the right to buy an AR 15. If we don't write the bill, the Dems will, possibly as soon as next January, if not sooner.

They did in 2015, it banned almost any interesting gun you might want to own. I actually used the list as a wish list so to speak, it was so complete.

Had that bill gotten enough Republicans to get on board, Obama would have signed it and the Florida school shooter would not have been able to kill 17 last week.

So in reality, the Democratic bill would have saved those children. He would not have had the chance to kill as many with a bolt action rifle.

Yeah, the FBI not being stupid would have saved them too. But the AR15 ban would have saved those children. No doubt in my mind.

My social media is a blaze with ban the AR15, end the second amendment, kick the GOP out in November.

The GOP needs to get a head of this with their own bill. Now.

So a law to ban an object will keep somebody intent on breaking another law from breaking the law? How did California's ban on "assault weapons" work a couple of years ago? How did France's gun ban work in Paris? Gun bans are feel good laws and do not address any real problems nor are they based on any data or hard facts.

Compromise now, compromise later, eventually you will have nothing to compromise. The other side never gives in and always takes. But that's ok as long as we all feel good.

[flechero]

After a night to think about it, I still agree that you're response and commitment are commendable. At the same time though I began to think about some of the other issues. While a solution like yours makes school shootings less likely or less damaging, several new issues come to mind.

Nothing is perfect. If I could solve the issue 100% I'd be president. (God help us!) However, I think if you asked a million people, you'd get a million responses that favor less school shootings, and fewer fatalities per incident. If the best we ever did was reduce the number of incidents and carnage of each- we'd be way ahead of where we are today!!

As noted in another thread - advocates and volunteers come from across the spectrum. Can enough high proficiency volunteers be found and in lacking that ability will we be willing to let in less than 100% qualified individuals to do these tasks?

There are specific training programs (school focused and public access active shooter focused for CHL's) available for exactly this scenario. LEO training is not nearly as high as most people think. Yes, swat and some other smaller elements are trained better but the average LEO who would be the first responder to the school is not. Research the Police Academy training and I think you'll find it is not too difficult to have that level on site. Plus, until something goes very wrong it can't be proven that this won't work. (and it's already going very wrong so at least, we add a fighting chance to the mix.)

Appx 100,000 schools in the US. 4-5 guards per shift - 1 shift per week, night activities - games etc 2-3 a week ends up being 40 per school to cover most well attended 'events' - that's 4 million volunteers and when we start looking at lost GDP and/or costs - it's not a realistic plan.

Well, let's start with 1 (or 2) at each school and build from there. (some coverage beats the heck out of none) We can eliminate a lot of budget waste but can't perfect the system from day one. Some mix of paid and volunteer... each school will have it's own unique situation. My son's school for instance would have no trouble getting 6-8 volunteers. Some would have none.

Besides it only covers one aspect of the problem. We still have mentally ill with weapons and many other target rich environments - malls, churches, political rallies, sporting events, colleges, unis and trade schools aren't in that number.

So, we should give up on everything because we might miss one element??????? Surely you don't mean that!?!?

Our Church is covered (as are many), malls are not all posted, many colleges have campus carry, trade schools can also be either. This discussion is about minor children in school... adult students can decide for themselves where to go and whether or not to carry.

This also does nothing to stop suicides, and domestic violence and other gun events precipitated by 'mental health decline'.

None of those issues are the subject of this debate. And to be brutally honest (as callous as it may sound) I don't care about someone committing suicide (whether ill or not) as long as they don't take my kid with them! People who have skills and training in mental health can work on that side of the equation- I'm only looking to address the side I can help with.

Again, if we don't start somewhere, nothing will ever change. These mass murderers usually off themselves at the first sign of resistance... so far we have offered them little to no incentive. I'm suggesting that we have to get off of our collective backsides and face the problem, literally.

We will never be able to tweak and perfect a system of response if we don't first put something in place and get started.

Will we make mistakes- YES. Will those mistakes result in more deaths than keeping our heads in the sand- no. If 1 or 2 innocents get shot while taking down an active shooter- that still beats another 10, 20 or ?? while letting them go until running out of ammo. And yes, I take that statement seriously, knowing me or my own child could be one of them. We live in tough times.

[EastTexasRancher]

So I understand things:

We accept and expect guards in banks, but not in schools.

Which do you value more, life or money?

[bblhd672]

So I understand things:

We accept and expect guards in banks, but not in schools.

Which do you value more, life or money?

Unfortunately for the progressive socialists, the answer is neither of your choices. The answer for which do you value more for them is "absolute power."

[Liberty]

I wrote an article in my blog about the AR-15. I wrote it with non shooters in mind, With an attempt to explain that the AR-15 is not any more of a threat to society than any other weapon while explaining its popularity.

http://libertysblog.com/2018/02/banning-the-ar15/

[bbhack]

Do you hate mental illness as much as you hate cancer? If not, why not. They are both potentially devastating. The afflicted did not want it. One can kill one slowly, one can kill many quickly. One we spend billions on treating. One we spend billions on confining when the law requires. One is common, the other in it's deadliest form is rare.

Would you be devastated if a friend or family member were diagnosed as incompetent? How about yourself? Scary?

There is a stigma and shame associated with mental illness that is not there with other things. I know I want to get away from a nut as fast as possible. I will hang around and talk to someone about other illnesses for as long as they want to talk.

We blame smokers for their cancers, but non-smokers get cancers too. Drug abusers compromise their mental health, but non-abusers lose their reality, too.

Do you know someone you would not go hunting with, because of their mental state or drug or alcohol abuse?

[TheFriscoKid]

My social media is a blaze with ban the AR15, end the second amendment, kick the GOP out in November.

The GOP needs to get a head of this with their own bill. Now.

I don't like being bull headed but with 50 years of shooting and politics - I really sense the tide is turning this time. The numbers don't add up for us. Sure there is more than 1 gun per American, I have 6. But the rate of gun ownership is going down.

Some people here live in a bit of a vacuum - only watching Fox, only hanging out with like minded folks in life and on the internet but if you wet your thumb and stick it out you'll see the times are a changing.

Phillips is right - GOP needs to get ahead. You may not like what they do but you'll really hate what the other side may push for. If you don't see that yet - start looking around outside of your comfort zone. And if you aren't stocked up already start shopping. I know I am. And I've never panicked shopped before - not once but this time is different.