30.06/7 signs and Parking Lots

[jonmo1]

Thanks for all the feedback.
It looks like there’s a line between ‘Fireable Offense’ and ‘Against the Law’. Looks like it’s not breaking any law, but could get you fired (a concept that is lost on many people these days).
I’m not concerned about being fired. The only way they’ll ever know is if I have to use it. If that happens, then my life is more important than my job.

[oljames3]

Thanks for all the feedback.
It looks like there’s a line between ‘Fireable Offense’ and ‘Against the Law’. Looks like it’s not breaking any law, but could get you fired (a concept that is lost on many people these days).
I’m not concerned about being fired. The only way they’ll ever know is if I have to use it. If that happens, then my life is more important than my job.

Seems to me you have a firm grasp on the essential concepts.

[Abraham]

Plus, never, ever confide about it to anyone...ever.

The person whose your best bud at work today (or even not at work, but knows your company's policy) may become angry at you hypothetically one day and decides he'd love it if you got fired.

No wink, wink, boast, boast, confiding to best bud: "I keep a gun in my car so I'm protected on my way to and from work may come back to haunt you."

Am I saying the same thing twice, yes, pay attention. Keep quiet about your car gun. And don't tell your Mother, Father, Brother, etc. either - keep quiet about it.

Why can't I at least tell my family?

They innocently talk at parties, church, etc. ears open, job leaves...

[Soccerdad1995]

As long as your firearm remains locked/concealed in your car, you are not violating 30.06/7. There is even a TX parking lot law which protects you.

That being said, do not allow your anti-gun employer to know you are keeping a firearm in your vehicle, or they can terminate you without cause or reason if they desire.

IANAL

Take a look at your employee handbook. If there is a policy stating that firearm possession may result in discipline "up to and including termination" print that out NOW and keep it at home just in case you are terminated "for no reason" shortly after they discover a gun in your car. Copies of your performance evals (assuming they are positive) would also help your case, of course. It is illegal for them to fire you because you have a gun in your car, but never assume that they (or anyone else) will tell the truth when push comes to shove.

HR is not likely to include any data or take an action that would be so clearly counterproductive as saying one was fired for having a firearm in their vehicle in the employer's parking lot. They can very easily come up with an innocuous reason, after all. My employer does not know what, how, or if I carry and I don't worry about it.

My employee handbook includes that exact phrase. And I doubt that the HR folks at my company even know that firing someone for this reason is against the law in Texas. This is at a company with over 6,000 employees.

While it would be nice to have them state the reason in writing, most employers will not give any official reason for a termination. That is unless they want to fight you on unemployment compensation or otherwise want to show that the termination was "for cause". I assumed that was the case when I said that you should have a copy of any references that are in your employee handbook, and should also have a copy of your positive performance evaluations. The employer will need to refute your allegations in court, and they are going to have a tough time saying that you were a terrible employee if you have a stack of very positive evals.

I agree with you about not disclosing the fact that you carry if you want to keep your job.

[Soccerdad1995]

Plus, never, ever confide about it to anyone...ever.

The person whose your best bud at work today (or even not at work, but knows your company's policy) may become angry at you hypothetically one day and decides he'd love it if you got fired.

No wink, wink, boast, boast, confiding to best bud: "I keep a gun in my car so I'm protected on my way to and from work may come back to haunt you."

Am I saying the same thing twice, yes, pay attention. Keep quiet about your car gun. And don't tell your Mother, Father, Brother, etc. either - keep quiet about it.

Why can't I at least tell my family?

They innocently talk at parties, church, etc. ears open, job leaves...

But this may not be practical, especially with your wife. If my wife and I are eating lunch with the kids and one of them wants to go out to the car to get their phone, iPad, etc., I need to explain to her that she or I needs to go with them, because they are under 16, and there is a gun in the glove box. There are other situations as well, like not being able to leave the car with the valet, etc. This assumes that you have a dedicated car gun in addition to the gun that is on your body.

[oljames3]

Plus, never, ever confide about it to anyone...ever.

The person whose your best bud at work today (or even not at work, but knows your company's policy) may become angry at you hypothetically one day and decides he'd love it if you got fired.

No wink, wink, boast, boast, confiding to best bud: "I keep a gun in my car so I'm protected on my way to and from work may come back to haunt you."

Am I saying the same thing twice, yes, pay attention. Keep quiet about your car gun. And don't tell your Mother, Father, Brother, etc. either - keep quiet about it.

Why can't I at least tell my family?

They innocently talk at parties, church, etc. ears open, job leaves...

But this may not be practical, especially with your wife. If my wife and I are eating lunch with the kids and one of them wants to go out to the car to get their phone, iPad, etc., I need to explain to her that she or I needs to go with them, because they are under 16, and there is a gun in the glove box. There are other situations as well, like not being able to leave the car with the valet, etc. This assumes that you have a dedicated car gun in addition to the gun that is on your body.

It is a trade off, as is most of life. My protectees probably need to know. Those on whom I depend and who depend on me probably need to know. It comes down to which risks we are willing to manage and which benefits matter most to us.

[apostate]

As long as your firearm remains locked/concealed in your car, you are not violating 30.06/7. There is even a TX parking lot law which protects you.

That being said, do not allow your anti-gun employer to know you are keeping a firearm in your vehicle, or they can terminate you without cause or reason if they desire.

IANAL

Take a look at your employee handbook. If there is a policy stating that firearm possession may result in discipline "up to and including termination" print that out NOW and keep it at home just in case you are terminated "for no reason" shortly after they discover a gun in your car. Copies of your performance evals (assuming they are positive) would also help your case, of course. It is illegal for them to fire you because you have a gun in your car, but never assume that they (or anyone else) will tell the truth when push comes to shove.

HR is not likely to include any data or take an action that would be so clearly counterproductive as saying one was fired for having a firearm in their vehicle in the employer's parking lot. They can very easily come up with an innocuous reason, after all. My employer does not know what, how, or if I carry and I don't worry about it.

My employee handbook includes that exact phrase. And I doubt that the HR folks at my company even know that firing someone for this reason is against the law in Texas. This is at a company with over 6,000 employees.

While it would be nice to have them state the reason in writing, most employers will not give any official reason for a termination. That is unless they want to fight you on unemployment compensation or otherwise want to show that the termination was "for cause". I assumed that was the case when I said that you should have a copy of any references that are in your employee handbook, and should also have a copy of your positive performance evaluations. The employer will need to refute your allegations in court, and they are going to have a tough time saying that you were a terrible employee if you have a stack of very positive evals.

I agree with you about not disclosing the fact that you carry if you want to keep your job.

More and more, it seems large companies won't give any reason publicly, unless it's part of a re-org or RIF. They also tend not to protest unemployment claims, as it's cheaper in the long run to pay slightly higher UI rates than deal with wrongful termination drama.

[flechero]

Plus, never, ever confide about it to anyone...ever.

The person whose your best bud at work today (or even not at work, but knows your company's policy) may become angry at you hypothetically one day and decides he'd love it if you got fired.

I can attest personally to this one... even if your fishing buddy is your boss. The gun/CHL didn't cost me the job but did allow him to put me in several very uncomfortable positions when he went to confront or fire others, he began making me accompany him as he knew I was armed.

These days, I work with family and they already knew if I was dressed, I was armed.

[rotor]

2. A property owner can prohibit guns in vehicles on their property if they're not your enployer. Suppose you work in an office building your employer leases and shares with other companies. The building owners and management can ban guns in the parking garage for tenants and guests.

Aside from federal property, are you in violation of any laws by having a gun locked in your car?

[ScottDLS]

2. A property owner can prohibit guns in vehicles on their property if they're not your enployer. Suppose you work in an office building your employer leases and shares with other companies. The building owners and management can ban guns in the parking garage for tenants and guests.

Aside from federal property, are you in violation of any laws by having a gun locked in your car?

None. Even if your company's building owner posts the parking lot, you are not breaking any law by leaving the gun in your car. And YOUR employer is prohibited from firing you for doing it.

[Venus Pax]

This is a very informative thread.

[BBYC]

If the property is not owned by the government or your employer, trespassing with a firearm is still a crime.

[Maxwell]

Am I missing something here?

State law is very clear on this:
LC §52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION.
A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

It's not complicated and it has nothing to do with MPA vs LTC. Why wasn't this covered in class?

Max

[fstfrd00]

Am I missing something here?

State law is very clear on this:
LC §52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION.
A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

It's not complicated and it has nothing to do with MPA vs LTC. Why wasn't this covered in class?

Max

Seems almost too simple, we might be missing something

[Caliber]

So, a building owner cannot prevent gun owners from keeping a gun in their vehicle while on the building owner's property. And, this is a rare situation where the building owner (or manager) does not control guns on their property. Is this correct?