Can civilians carry handcuffs?

[TX Rancher]

For all of you who are truly anti-cuffs, let me pose a situation to you:

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you. You aim at him and tell him to stop. He complies, dropping the property he was carrying and raising his hands.

OK, you got him. Now what are you going to do with him?

Sort of like the question about the dog chasing the car.

On a more serious side, having cuffs available will at least give you an option. Obviously, you need a partner who also knows how to handcuff (which is not hard) and to stay out of your line of fire.

A valid point…

So what would I do. Since I don’t carry cuffs anymore I certainly ain’t going to cuff him. If he stands there until the cops show up, great! If he moves towards me and I can move in such a way to maintain the distance, that’s what I will do. If he moves away with the intent of getting away before LEO shows up I would probably order him to stop, but do nothing to actually stop him.

If at any time during the incident I feel it is necessary to shoot, then I will

If I had cuffs, and was by myself, my response would be essentially the same with the possible exception I may ask him to cuff himself. Heck, he may be scared enough of the maniac in front of him with a gun that he complies! If not, the situation hasn’t really changed.

During training exercises in another life, I was less than 50/50 on cuffing by myself and I was always extremely worried (polite way of saying I was scared to death) when I had to do it in real life. It’s not something I would do in the situation you put forward.

Now if I had a partner with me, it’s a different story.

RubenZ:

If you don’t like IWB, and prefer OWB, then carry that way. 90% of the time I carry OWB and only carry IWB when I feel I need the additional concealment. Don’t be overly concerned about your pistol being visible for a second or two due to wind or a casual glance. Most folks won’t even notice, and by far the majority of those that do won’t cause a scene.

If you don’t have a functional use for them (and I consider Flintknappers’ reason for carrying meets the functional use clause), then don’t clutter up your belt with them. If you carry a full sized pistol, a spare mag, and a cell phone on your belt, you have enough weight already to deal with…

Dragonfighter:

I get your point on carrying what you need to get out of a situation, and that’s a healthy attitude (one that I myself believe in). But it may be worth revisiting the decision to leave the spare magazine at home. While 13 + 1 may indeed be enough to get you out of the situation, if something goes wrong with the mag, you no longer have the 13 + 1, and since the mag is typically the weak link in the weapons system, it may be worth the effort to carry a spare…just something to think about.

[TX Rancher]

Somehow my post showed up twice...edited 2nd post

[KD5NRH]

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you.

He's right at Tueller drill range at that point, and also within arm's length of my primary non-useful-varmint gun. (.30-06, 180gr JSPs; it's only overkill if there's some part you want to save) Given those points, and the relatively low probability that he would miss with a rifle at that range, or that I would survive anything but a graze with it, I'd be hard pressed to take the time to give orders.

[Renegade]

For all of you who are truly anti-cuffs, let me pose a situation to you:

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you. You aim at him and tell him to stop. He complies, dropping the property he was carrying and raising his hands.

OK, you got him. Now what are you going to do with him?

Let him keep in running out the front door.

It is a very, very bad idea for someone with ZERO training in making a felony arrests, to try to cuff a suspect, much less while in possession of a gun.

You are talking about taking a situation where just letting him go (presumably with little to none of your valuables), and escalating it to a situation where you could get killed in a struggle while cuffing him.

No brainer - let him go.

[frankie_the_yankee]

For all of you who are truly anti-cuffs, let me pose a situation to you:

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you. You aim at him and tell him to stop. He complies, dropping the property he was carrying and raising his hands.

OK, you got him. Now what are you going to do with him?

Let him keep in running out the front door.

It is a very, very bad idea for someone with ZERO training in making a felony arrests, to try to cuff a suspect, much less while in possession of a gun.

You are talking about taking a situation where just letting him go (presumably with little to none of your valuables), and escalating it to a situation where you could get killed in a struggle while cuffing him.

No brainer - let him go.

[Humanphibian]

Handcuffs on a shoulder rig = Ballast

understadable in that case, especially since a loaded mag has been replaced w/ a light

EDIT....opps....that should have quoted a post on an earlier page.

[flintknapper]

For all of you who are truly anti-cuffs, let me pose a situation to you:

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you. You aim at him and tell him to stop. He complies, dropping the property he was carrying and raising his hands.

OK, you got him. Now what are you going to do with him?

Let him keep in running out the front door.

It is a very, very bad idea for someone with ZERO training in making a felony arrests, to try to cuff a suspect, much less while in possession of a gun.

You are talking about taking a situation where just letting him go (presumably with little to none of your valuables), and escalating it to a situation where you could get killed in a struggle while cuffing him.

No brainer - let him go.

Of course each person should react with respect to the totality of the situation at hand.

Everyone has a different idea about what they are willing to "shoot" over and not, even when the law allows for it.

From a purely tactical standpoint, if I had just come in the front door...I don't want an intruder running toward me to escape through it.

In the event the intruder indicates he is going to be compliant, then you would NOT physically cuff the person yourself (for the reasons you cited).

Instead, you would order the intruder to keep his hands visible (clasped behind his head), command him to sit on the floor facing away from you, command him to cross his legs. Explain that are you are going to toss the cuffs next to him and that he is to slowly put them on.

If he doesn't comply immediately:

Forcefully remind him that his only other option is to be shot until he is no longer considered a threat.

Now, I realize not everyone is "up to this"....but the alternative is to let him go, or hold him at gun point.

I have held one man at gun point in my life (a man caught breaking into my truck). He immediately dropped the screwdriver he had and put his hands up as I commanded. He was more than willing to follow my instructions for him to go to the back of the truck, put both hands on the tailgate spread apart...and then spread his feet apart.

Austin PD had 5 units pull up almost simultaneously, but it took 3-4 minutes for them to get there. It seemed like an eternity to me (and for him too I am sure). The call to PD was made by someone who witnessed the whole incident, but the officer I talked to said the report came in as "man with a gun".

Years later, thinking back on that...I sure wish I had a pair of cuffs that evening. The guy that I caught would have "jumped" into them and I could have lowered my weapon.

Again, I am NOT advocating CHL's go get a pair of cuffs. I am well aware of how tough it can be to cuff someone. The local LEO come to our dojo to get additional police tactics training.

I am just saying, if you have a pair at home you might be able to use them to your advantage in some situations.

[Jeremae]

From my personal experience of interupting a burglary:

I instructed the young man to unfasten his belt and pants but not take down, sit on floor, extend his legs straight out and flat on floor and sit on the back of his hands with his palms flat on the floor.

he was extremely compliant but the fact that I outweighed him by about 200 lbs, was holding a 12 gauge pump shotgun he had heard me shuck a shell into and the peturbed look I'm sure was on my face after finding him loading my silver into one of my pillowcases may have been factors.

He was silent and motionless until HPD arrived then began mouthing off in a most profane and disrespectful manner including threatening me if I pressed charges.

According to the paperwork I received he was only 12 years old and this was his 3rd burglary of a habitation arrest.

[Geopagus]

My own personal opinion is having cuffs on your person and your not LE? Is potentially inviting trouble. However, there is no law that I am aware of which states you cannot.

[flintknapper]

My own personal opinion is having cuffs on your person and your not LE? Is potentially inviting trouble. However, there is no law that I am aware of which states you cannot.

If not concealed I couldn't agree with you more.

If concealed...and IF you can see some advantage to them per your lifestyle/self defense plan, then I see no downside to them. They'll just be heavy...and you'll probably never use them. But my pistol qualifies on that account.

You make a valid point though.

[Skiprr]

This has nothing to do with handcuffs, but is just a note that the NRA Personal Protection courses recommend, if you have to restrain a threat at gunpoint, to have them lie face down, legs splayed, and arms outstretched with the palms facing up.

If you've had any training in a grappling or ground-fighting martial art, you'll agree this is just about the optimum position if you're on the offense. Moreover, in this position the threat has the least possible opportunity to access another weapon without your awareness. Which is key: in any likely confrontation, you will not have patted the guy down or wanded him; he may have dropped the gun or knife you saw initially, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have another weapon on his person. Even handcuffs don't completely mitigate this risk. Remember Officer Rodney Johnson's death last year?

[srothstein]

I just wanted to point out that this is something we all need to think about. I was taking a seminar from Ayoob many years ago where he pointed out that off-duty officers should always have a set of cuffs with them if they are armed. His logic was that if you did get in a shooting, the plaintiff's attorney (or DA Earle) might try to argue that you only shot him because you had no other way to restrain him.

As many have pointed out, if you are alone and untrained, it is best to not go near a suspect to cuff him. They have been known to turn and attack in the middle of being cuffed, even with multiple officers present. They will usually wait until you get one cuff on them because this makes the cuffs a weapon as the swing that arm.

But, if you are carrying a weapon, you need to know what to do with the person IF you do get him to stop and surrender. While the sitting with the legs crossed works, I would probably prone him out as recommended by the NRA. This is police training too. A second good choice would be have him kneel down and then cross his ankles behind him with his hands on his head. It also has the tendency to inhibit his rapid response to anything. As soon as you can get him down, move to a position where he is not watching you (behind him if possible). This will let him worry about you and what you will do, while you can keep an eye on him.

[Geopagus]

flintknapper:

I respect your opinion and I have to say that srothstein made many valid points.

[The45Guy]

I have been trained and am certified the same way LEOs are as it was part of my job. 1st thing you must realize is that it is illegal and can be considered kidknapping if you hold someone against their will. 2nd dozens of police officers are severely injured or killed every year by attempting to improperly handcuff someone because they get complacent and dont follow the procedures if someone seems to be complying. I have seen it. 3rd You are legally responsible for anyone you put handcuffs on. If that person tries to run while cuffed and falls down and suffers injury or runs into the street and gets hit by a car guess who the attorneys are coming after for hospital bills and all the other good stuff. They do have handcuffing certification courses which are very informative but do you really want that responsability? I never carry mine when im not at work.

[parabelum]

Hey, I guess I'll chime in....10 years too late!!!

Yea, don't be a mall ninja...leave the handcuffs for other...occasions...