GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

[philip964]

https://danaloesch.com/the-killing-of-ahmaud-arbery/

Dana Loesch weighs in.

She doesn’t even mention the 3 shots.

She feels the dead man was in fear of his life, and had a right of self defense.

[03Lightningrocks]

https://danaloesch.com/the-killing-of-ahmaud-arbery/

Dana Loesch weighs in.

She doesn’t even mention the 3 shots.

She feels the dead man was in fear of his life, and had a right of self defense

.

I said the same thing several posts back. Especially if he had not done anything wrong. He had no way of knowing why he was being chased by two guys with a truck. I asked somebody a few posts back what they would do if someone had them in the same situation. I never recieved an answer. I can tell you I would realize a guy had the shotgun out and I would also realize I can't get away from a shotgun blast by running. I would draw and begin to fire at them.

[lj98]

Sadly too many jump to the defense of the “bubbas” in these situations for a variety of reasons. While I support Stand Your Ground Laws, they are often used to excuse the initial aggressor at the expense of the deceased who, by all rights, should also be expected to stand their ground.

[Flightmare]

Sadly too many jump to the defense of the “bubbas” in these situations for a variety of reasons. While I support Stand Your Ground Laws, they are often used to excuse the initial aggressor at the expense of the deceased who, by all rights, should also be expected to stand their ground.

While I am not a lawyer, and not completely up to date on all of the facts of this case; I don't think "Stand your ground" would not apply for the 2 guys in this case. They were the ones who pursued the jogger. If anything, the jogger would be the one who be justified in attempting to stand his ground. Again, this is just based on what little I have read and been told about this case.

[parabelum]

These two were the aggressors in this case in my opinion.

[lj98]

While I am not a lawyer, and not completely up to date on all of the facts of this case; I don't think "Stand your ground" would not apply for the 2 guys in this case. They were the ones who pursued the jogger. If anything, the jogger would be the one who be justified in attempting to stand his ground. Again, this is just based on what little I have read and been told about this case.

The GA version of stand your ground was cited by the DA as one of the reasons for not bringing charges initially.

[philip964]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/?ref=gs

Trump comments on the case. A very sad thing.

[srothstein]

This is an update that may have some interesting information.

[philip964]

This is an update that may have some interesting information.

He says he is a former police officer.

He says both had a right not to retreat and both had a right to defend themselves.

Video shows the dead man walking not jogging in the neighborhood. Then shows him sprint up the driveway into what he describes as a dwelling not a house under construction. It was a house being renovated on the inside. The outside was a completed house. He states that Georgia law entering a dwelling for the purpose of burglary is a felony. He says the shooters observed him entering the home. Someone shouts at him and he immediately runs off. He says Georgia law would then allow the two men to make a citizens arrest.

Says it was a shot gun. No one has said what kind yet.

[oljames3]

GA law is different form Texas law in many respects. For example, the GA statute for "arrest by private persons" states that "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed ... within his immediate knowledge." GA 17-4-60 has two conditions for non-felony arrest; presence or knowledge. It is either, not both. For felony arrest, it is "reasonable and probable grounds for suspicion."

GA 17-4-60 "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

In both GA and Texas law there are provisions that seem to allow actions that, while lawful, could easily lead to awful consequences.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

And then there is Texas Penal Code 9.41 PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY and 9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. In Texas, the law authorizes us to use force and deadly force in defense of mere property, under several restrictions. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE provides that the "production of a weapon ... does not constitute the use of deadly force." Here in Texas, while it may be lawful to point a shotgun a trespasser, one could easily find oneself in awful legal difficulty for such action.

I only know enough about the law to know I need a lawyer to explain it to me. As we saw in Zimmerman's case and in Ferguson, MO, the facts will be come out slowly while the wild speculation and extreme views will be seen almost immediately.

[03Lightningrocks]

GA law is different form Texas law in many respects. For example, the GA statute for "arrest by private persons" states that "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed ... within his immediate knowledge." GA 17-4-60 has two conditions for non-felony arrest; presence or knowledge. It is either, not both. For felony arrest, it is "reasonable and probable grounds for suspicion."

GA 17-4-60 "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

In both GA and Texas law there are provisions that seem to allow actions that, while lawful, could easily lead to awful consequences.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

And then there is Texas Penal Code 9.41 PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY and 9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. In Texas, the law authorizes us to use force and deadly force in defense of mere property, under several restrictions. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE provides that the "production of a weapon ... does not constitute the use of deadly force." Here in Texas, while it may be lawful to point a shotgun a trespasser, one could easily find oneself in awful legal difficulty for such action.

I only know enough about the law to know I need a lawyer to explain it to me. As we saw in Zimmerman's case and in Ferguson, MO, the facts will be come out slowly while the wild speculation and extreme views will be seen almost immediately.

Yeah, you keep reposting and saying that but aparently you are severely misinterpreting the laws on this. First, they did not see him doing anything wrong and had no first hand info that he had just done anything wrong. Suspicion of wrong doing does not qualify.

[Archery1]

GA law is different form Texas law in many respects. For example, the GA statute for "arrest by private persons" states that "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed ... within his immediate knowledge." GA 17-4-60 has two conditions for non-felony arrest; presence or knowledge. It is either, not both. For felony arrest, it is "reasonable and probable grounds for suspicion."

GA 17-4-60 "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

In both GA and Texas law there are provisions that seem to allow actions that, while lawful, could easily lead to awful consequences.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

And then there is Texas Penal Code 9.41 PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY and 9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. In Texas, the law authorizes us to use force and deadly force in defense of mere property, under several restrictions. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE provides that the "production of a weapon ... does not constitute the use of deadly force." Here in Texas, while it may be lawful to point a shotgun a trespasser, one could easily find oneself in awful legal difficulty for such action.

I only know enough about the law to know I need a lawyer to explain it to me. As we saw in Zimmerman's case and in Ferguson, MO, the facts will be come out slowly while the wild speculation and extreme views will be seen almost immediately.

Yeah, you keep reposting and saying that but aparently you are severely misinterpreting the laws on this. First, they did not see him doing anything wrong and had no first hand info that he had just done anything wrong. Suspicion of wrong doing does not qualify.

And, GA Supreme Court precedence which states this also has stated that unreasonable use of force to simply detain someone for LE is not allowed under citizens arrest law and that once LE is called to respond, there's no allowance to pursue with intent to detain.

[oljames3]

I am not interpreting anything. I am simply presenting GA law as it is written and some examples of how it has been applied in GA. I leave the explanation to the lawyers and the interpretation and application to the courts and juries.

Attorney Andrew Branca, The Law of Self Defense, explains, discusses, and answers questions on GA citizen arrest and GA felony burglary:
https://www.facebook.com/LawofSelfDefense/
https://www.facebook.com/LawofSelfDefen ... 948601134/

[srothstein]

Yeah, you keep reposting and saying that but aparently you are severely misinterpreting the laws on this. First, they did not see him doing anything wrong and had no first hand info that he had just done anything wrong. Suspicion of wrong doing does not qualify.

Speaking of reposting things and not listening to the other side, isn't that what you just did. First, no matter what he did get seen doing something wrong. When he entered the house it was without permission and constitutes trespassing. That is a crime and he was seen doing it. I am not sure I agree with the person in the video I posted a link too, but the video from inside the house shows him looking around which could indicate planning to steal something. I am not sure if I agree with the logic of him committing a burglary, though it is worded that way in Texas also (entering a property without permission with the intent to commit a theft). But if correct, burglary is a felony in both Texas and Georgia. And Georgia law apparently does allow them to chase him down for mere suspicion of a felony.

What we all need to do is call for a thorough unbiased investigation and wait until we get all of the facts from it before we jump to a conclusion. I don't know if Arbery was a burglar or not. I don't know if the McMichaels were murderers or not. I want to see a full and proper investigation that releases the facts.

Of course, i have no faith whatsoever of the media ever presenting the unbiased facts.

[philip964]

Yeah, you keep reposting and saying that but aparently you are severely misinterpreting the laws on this. First, they did not see him doing anything wrong and had no first hand info that he had just done anything wrong. Suspicion of wrong doing does not qualify.

Speaking of reposting things and not listening to the other side, isn't that what you just did. First, no matter what he did get seen doing something wrong. When he entered the house it was without permission and constitutes trespassing. That is a crime and he was seen doing it. I am not sure I agree with the person in the video I posted a link too, but the video from inside the house shows him looking around which could indicate planning to steal something. I am not sure if I agree with the logic of him committing a burglary, though it is worded that way in Texas also (entering a property without permission with the intent to commit a theft). But if correct, burglary is a felony in both Texas and Georgia. And Georgia law apparently does allow them to chase him down for mere suspicion of a felony.

What we all need to do is call for a thorough unbiased investigation and wait until we get all of the facts from it before we jump to a conclusion. I don't know if Arbery was a burglar or not. I don't know if the McMichaels were murderers or not. I want to see a full and proper investigation that releases the facts.

Of course, i have no faith whatsoever of the media ever presenting the unbiased facts.

I just want to know if it was a pump action shotgun?