crazy2medic wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:44 am
How do you know when it's gone from vandalism to an attempt to get at you? I'm not fond of the idea they come through the broke window and kill me
I've often thought about this. Problem is, when you bring it up, all the derps blather about a "pile of dead protestors in my front yard" or some such nonsense.
But as far as a viable grand jury defense.... would you have a defense if you used deadly force against, say, somebody throwing a brick through your window? What about just a rock? And of course we're assuming it's daytime. Would that meet the "immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury" legal standard for a valid self-defense claim?
I think it depends on the circumstances... a rock hurled from the street is one thing but, if a mob approaches your home, yelling death threats- then the brick through the window is about like breaking the lock on the door.
BLM rioters smash windows in homes in Milwaukee suburb after Black Officer kills Black teen and is not charged.
I find myself wondering what the laws are in Texas if something like this occurs. I would have a hard time not firing on someone who is attacking me in my home.
If a group of people are smashing windows, would you not assume they are trying to get to you to hurt or kill you? Kinda like being trapped in a mob on the street, when they break your car window you'd assume they were attempting to reach you to inflict grave bodily harm!
They throw rocks into my house, I think it's fair for me to throw lead balls back. It's like a game of catch.
Exactly
But I still wonder what the legal ramifications would be.
IANAL, but...
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Thanks to all of the Posts - My questions / scenario is this. We live in a nice suburban neighborhood. Scenario is during daylight - What if a Mob is on your property in your yard and/or in your back yard which is fenced in and gated.
The Mob has not attacked the house but they are yelling and threatening and doing property damage, e.g., damaging automobiles in driveway or tearing up property in yard or patio.
What do you do ?
Stay inside and call Police?
Call Police and go outside armed - to stop the property damage ?
Thanks to all for any advice as this is unfortunately a real potential scenario with all the ignorant behavior and lawlessness going on nowadays.
gamboolman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:32 pm
Thanks to all of the Posts - My questions / scenario is this. We live in a nice suburban neighborhood. Scenario is during daylight - What if a Mob is on your property in your yard and/or in your back yard which is fenced in and gated.
The Mob has not attacked the house but they are yelling and threatening and doing property damage, e.g., damaging automobiles in driveway or tearing up property in yard or patio.
What do you do ?
Stay inside and call Police?
Call Police and go outside armed - to stop the property damage ?
Thanks to all for any advice as this is unfortunately a real potential scenario with all the ignorant behavior and lawlessness going on nowadays.
I'm not sure if you can go outside armed. It's probably legal, yes, as long as you don't point a weapon at somebody - that's assault - but to my knowledge you can't use deadly force to prevent property damage.
gamboolman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:32 pm
Thanks to all of the Posts - My questions / scenario is this. We live in a nice suburban neighborhood. Scenario is during daylight - What if a Mob is on your property in your yard and/or in your back yard which is fenced in and gated.
The Mob has not attacked the house but they are yelling and threatening and doing property damage, e.g., damaging automobiles in driveway or tearing up property in yard or patio.
What do you do ?
Stay inside and call Police?
Call Police and go outside armed - to stop the property damage ?
Thanks to all for any advice as this is unfortunately a real potential scenario with all the ignorant behavior and lawlessness going on nowadays.
I'm not sure if you can go outside armed. It's probably legal, yes, as long as you don't point a weapon at somebody - that's assault - but to my knowledge you can't use deadly force to prevent property damage.
In Texas, pointing a weapon is not always assault.
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
Safety Ministry Director, First Baptist Church Elgin
NRA, NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Instructor, Rangemaster Certified, GOA, TSRA, NAR L1
BLM rioters smash windows in homes in Milwaukee suburb after Black Officer kills Black teen and is not charged.
I find myself wondering what the laws are in Texas if something like this occurs. I would have a hard time not firing on someone who is attacking me in my home.
If a group of people are smashing windows, would you not assume they are trying to get to you to hurt or kill you? Kinda like being trapped in a mob on the street, when they break your car window you'd assume they were attempting to reach you to inflict grave bodily harm!
They throw rocks into my house, I think it's fair for me to throw lead balls back. It's like a game of catch.
Exactly
But I still wonder what the legal ramifications would be.
IANAL, but...
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Thanks to all of the Posts - My questions / scenario is this. We live in a nice suburban neighborhood. Scenario is during daylight - What if a Mob is on your property in your yard and/or in your back yard which is fenced in and gated.
The Mob has not attacked the house but they are yelling and threatening and doing property damage, e.g., damaging automobiles in driveway or tearing up property in yard or patio.
What do you do ?
Stay inside and call Police?
Call Police and go outside armed - to stop the property damage ?
Thanks to all for any advice as this is unfortunately a real potential scenario with all the ignorant behavior and lawlessness going on nowadays.
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
Safety Ministry Director, First Baptist Church Elgin
NRA, NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Instructor, Rangemaster Certified, GOA, TSRA, NAR L1
Officer, I would like to answer all of your questions. I really would. However, I will have to talk to a lawyer first.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016. NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
It's interesting how there's so little information known despite the video. There are a ton of conjectures, but the only real facts we know are the following: someone discharged an irritant of some sort, the media-hired security guard fired the shot at that someone, and two guns were at the scene. We don't know what the irritant was (could be Mace, could be just OC spray), we don't know anyone's affiliation other than the security guard. We don't even know where the second gun came from. It could easily be the security guard's BUG.
As for "clearly hearing a gun being chambered," why would anyone carry a gun unloaded? Also, that sound, which isn't clear, can easily be a collapsible baton. There are plenty of those in the video.
Moral of the story for folks on both sides, stay home. If you do go out to these events know that bringing any sort of weapon, gun, mace, baton, knife etc. may be detrimental to your health, physical and financial. Especially if you are not properly trained in the use of said weapons and more importantly, the art of deescalation.
The only way I'll be in a protest is if I stumble into one by accident, don't go looking for trouble and chances are you won't find trouble, if trouble comes looking for me it's gonna have to chase me down or trap me and that is why I carry a gun!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
