I may need a Lawyer...

Piney · #16

Greetings--

A couple of comments--

I'd go by the location on the road in a different vehicle to take some photos. If the landowner didnt have any signs, fence or markings in place when the act occured, you *might* have a legal leg to stand on. If there werent any then ,but are now, note that as well. If there was signage, painted markings (purple) or a fence that you crossed--good luck.

Second-- I'd have engaged an atty before making a statement to the SO or Game Warden. Innocent comments babbled in the heat of a situation-- the ole "loose lips....." addage ya know....

As a rural landowner, I would not be pleased if I found that someone had been tresspassing-- especially shooting or hunting. /rant on/ Folks just dont get it-- its MY land- not yours... You want to go out on some-- go buy it yourself !! /rant off/

Liberty · #17

Piney wrote:Greetings--

As a rural landowner, I would not be pleased if I found that someone had been tresspassing-- especially shooting or hunting. /rant on/ Folks just dont get it-- its MY land- not yours... You want to go out on some-- go buy it yourself !! /rant off/

In fairness the original poster might not have understood that this is the way it is. There are states where it is perfectly legal if the land is not posted to cross fences to hunt.

Photoman · #18

flintknapper wrote: FWIW, I would try to contact the land owner and make my apologies in person.

While I appreciate the sentiment, judging from what the authorities said, I would not recommend doing this.

Photoman · #19

Liberty wrote:In fairness the original poster might not have understood that this is the way it is. There are states where it is perfectly legal if the land is not posted to cross fences to hunt.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. What are they teaching in Kindergarten nowdays?!

Lucky45 · #20

Photoman wrote:
flintknapper wrote: FWIW, I would try to contact the land owner and make my apologies in person.
While I appreciate the sentiment, judging from what the authorities said, I would not recommend doing this.

You are right, photoman, I got that vibe the LEO implied out of all people he chose this guy. But what JJ can do is to have his lawyer contact the landowner to apologize and OFFER to repair any damages that he might have caused. If he put some rounds in some trees, JJ can offer to purchase some 4" caliper oak trees that the owner can plant anywhere on his property. Then promise to never to return again.
Just a suggestion.

flintknapper · #21

Photoman wrote:
flintknapper wrote: FWIW, I would try to contact the land owner and make my apologies in person.
While I appreciate the sentiment, judging from what the authorities said, I would not recommend doing this.

It depends on the mans demeanor and past experiences. The guy might be a real tough nut to crack, or he might be reasonable and approachable.

Whatever occurs from a legal standpoint is going to happen or not.

My concern would be to let the guy know (personally) that I was sorry for the intrusion. Doesn't matter what happens after that, its just the right thing to do (unless you're not sorry).

Just my take on it.

Mike1951 · #22

MoJo wrote:If I remember my Texas History correctly there are no "public lands" in Texas. It was all given to the Rail Roads so they could finance their construction.

I don't know how much was given to the railroads.

But Texas' distinction from the other states is that it entered the USA by treaty and that treaty stipulated that the state of Texas retained title to all of its public land.

There used to be at least three 'unofficial' shooting areas in the Sam Houston National Forest. About 3-4 years ago, the Foresty Service closed them with the exception of a more 'regulation' shooting range, which I think is open Oct-Dec.

Even though TPWD has tried to secure land for public hunting, they also have little understanding for plinking.

When I grew up, it was common to visit city dumps and shoot rats or plink.

It was still acceptable to approach a farmer about hunting on his land and TV commercials ran about 'leave every gate as you found it' as a public service.

The point is, there are no good opportunities for plinking. If you don't own land, you're out of luck.

JJ99SS · #23

Thanks for all your replies. You all have valid opinions and great advice. I will state again that I have great respect for all land and other peoples property. I myself wouldn't like to see tresspassing on my land either. Had I known and/or had there been postings visible I would never have thought for a second about tresspass. I value my CHL too much. I did however forget to bring a trashbag to clean up the mess. A usual practice for me as I did lots of backpacking in Colorado and have had to pack out all trash including your own poo.

I did however speak to two officers today that came in to eat at the establishment that I work at and they have calmed some fears even though I'm not out of the woods entirely. They said as for the criminal part of tresspass as long as I didn't damage any property and no signs were posted, which is the case, that the DA probably wouldn't deem it worth persuing. Given a few days to calm down they also said that a huge majority off people who cry foul and want to press charges end up not doing so due to the expense and time that they have to give up to the process. ie not worth my time.

So as long as the DA says no...I look good. They said that the investigator will usually know what the DA will throw out and will usually not even bother submiting it for review. I'll let you all know what happens when I get the call. Should be Tuesday due to Veterans Day tomorrow.

FWIW I have been in Texas more than 20 years but spent a good portion of my youth in NM near the 4 corners. Much of the land outside of town was BLM land where you could roam and plink anything anywhere. It was great. May need to head back that direction because the itch for me to shoot outdoors is a big one. I hate shooting at paper, its so boring.

And no way will I return to talk to the guy. Not because I'm not sorry, but based on what the LEO's told me about the guy. I didn't even see any houses where I was so I don't even know where he lives....which is fine by me. I won't be back there again.

zigzag · #24

From what i know Texas is almost owned private except for the few national parks etc. Its a sad thing really we cant find any public places to enjoy esp our sports. For the most part stay out of trouble with landowners. Best is buy your own property.

lws380 · #25

JJ99SS

I'm just curious. Have you done this before in Texas in the past 20 years you have been here? I'm guessing you probably have and just never were caught. Or are you saying this is the first time you have ever done it (in Texas) and got caught right out of the chute?

I live in the country on a few acres and have a few friends with ranches. All are very protective of their land and they know more about what is going on on their land than most people think.

Personally, I like the idea of contacting the owner to work it out. When I bought my property I was putting in a fence. I was called by the developer (an Attorney) and told that an adjacent land owner was going to to sue me if i put in the fence as it was encroaching on his property. His fence was 2 feet inside my property. Essentially 2,000 feet of fence was actually in the newly developed properties and he did not like the fact that survey stakes were inside of his fence. I told the Atty I would contact the land owner to work it out and was encouraged not to do so. But, I did anyway. I told the developer the land and ranch has been in the guys family for over 100 years and I do not blame him.
I contacted the owner and we both agreed it was a problem for the developer. The developer actually wound up paying a few thousand dollars to the land owner. They agreed to the survey and for me to put up a new fence. They essentially wanted $ for what they thought was being taken from them.

Sorry for the rant. But my point is that most good people will listen to reason. It worked out for me. May not for you. I think I would have the investigator subtlety ask the owner or tell him you want to meet him and appologize and ask him what you could do to make it better and see what happens.

Greybeard · #26

Quote: "had there been postings visible"

Never did get answer to prior question: Did y'all cross a fence?

DFWCHLer · #27

lws380 wrote:I contacted the owner and we both agreed it was a problem for the developer. The developer actually wound up paying a few thousand dollars to the land owner. They agreed to the survey and for me to put up a new fence. They essentially wanted $ for what they thought was being taken from them.

Different ball of wax. What you were dealing with was a purely civil matter (and, only a threat of one at that). This is a criminal matter.

If he talks to the landowner, who's to say the landowner won't record the call. Unless he chooses his words very carefully, he might end up providing an uncoerced confession, even if that's not his intention.

Find a very, very good attorney, pay his ransom, and deal with it. Most likely, the attorney will do some initial work and then sit back and wait until criminal charges are either filed or not filed. If not filed, the whole thing may well simply go away - in which case, I'd keep a wide berth from the guy's property at all times.

stevie_d_64 · #28

We have a chunk of property up in N.E. Texas that has been "posted" for as long as I can remember...And that signage is for the folks who may not know who's property it is...

We have a handshake agreement with a bunch of the neighbors and locals in town that if you were to just come up to the main house up in front of the property and ask to go fishing, or hunting...I would say that you'd be more than welcome at that point...Just don't make a mess and tell us what you'd like to do, and let us know generally where you'll be and check out when you leave...

Mostly common sense and courtesy...That will get you everywhere in my book...

I believe "99" is lucky...And I got a real good feel that he and his GF didn't mean any harm by what they did...

I believe a lot of people would be sympathetic and understanding, but simply asking, even if you get a "no" goes a long way...

Going through the effort to find the owners, I believe goes a long way to reinforcing your honest intent...

lws380 · #29

DFWCHLer wrote:
lws380 wrote:I contacted the owner and we both agreed it was a problem for the developer. The developer actually wound up paying a few thousand dollars to the land owner. They agreed to the survey and for me to put up a new fence. They essentially wanted $ for what they thought was being taken from them.
Different ball of wax. What you were dealing with was a purely civil matter (and, only a threat of one at that). This is a criminal matter.

If he talks to the landowner, who's to say the landowner won't record the call. Unless he chooses his words very carefully, he might end up providing an uncoerced confession, even if that's not his intention.

Find a very, very good attorney, pay his ransom, and deal with it. Most likely, the attorney will do some initial work and then sit back and wait until criminal charges are either filed or not filed. If not filed, the whole thing may well simply go away - in which case, I'd keep a wide berth from the guy's property at all times.

Hasn't he already confessed to the cops/authorities, and here on this forum? Seems to me quilt is not an issue as he has already admitted to it.

From the land owners stand point, all he knows is that some yahoos were shooting on his property, took off and left a mess, got caught and never personally appologized to him in any way. I just think some good communication and appology may go a long way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I'd do. This way he may actualy avoid the ransom.

zigzag · #30

The best he could have done was ask a friend if theres a place to shoot. I did that to a coworker and he said about a bridge across the FOrk of the Brazos somewhere in NOrth Texas. Just park under the bridge and stay on the river banks.And never to cross somebody's fence is Rule No 1. Never to shoot indiscrimately and know the backstop Rule no 2. Dont leave trash around Rule no 3. Be armed and wary for any potential yahoos. Cattle can be roaming and lying around for all you know , so dont shoot anything on sight.
I drive to this place to hunt hogs for almost five years. So far no problem with landowners. In those 5 years I bagged three hogs, one feral dog and two deers.