Kenosha Wisconsin Shooter discussion

[jerry_r60]

Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

I'll agree with you and acknowlege where you said "mostly agreeing....".

It seems many people have a different idea of a hero. Heros win medal of honors, run into burning buildings to carry out babies, save someone drowning etc. Saving yourself does not a hero make.

[Dave2]

https://news.yahoo.com/rittenhouse-verd ... 24203.html

Set legal precedent for white privilege.

I understand that it’s a free country and people can be wrong if that’s their preference, but I do wish the media would stop trying to lower the bar.

[srothstein]

Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

I disagree for several reasons, some of which have been mentioned by others and at least one of which has not. I do agree that Rittenhouse should not have gone to Kenosha that night. But that is what comes of age and experience. I have done some stupid things, especially back when I was 17. That includes going to places which are not safe. But going there does not make him a vigilante, as the article slipped in. If it did, every bank guard who carried a gun would also be a vigilante.

I could almost agree that none of this should make Rittenhouse a folk hero. Even knowing our history of making folk heroes out of criminals like Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, and Bonnie and Clyde, I think this makes Rittenhouse much more of a folk hero than anything George Floyd did. And if the left can build monuments to him, the right can certainly elevate Rittenhouse's stature somewhat.

[powerboatr]

Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

I disagree for several reasons, some of which have been mentioned by others and at least one of which has not. I do agree that Rittenhouse should not have gone to Kenosha that night. But that is what comes of age and experience. I have done some stupid things, especially back when I was 17. That includes going to places which are not safe. But going there does not make him a vigilante, as the article slipped in. If it did, every bank guard who carried a gun would also be a vigilante.

I could almost agree that none of this should make Rittenhouse a folk hero. Even knowing our history of making folk heroes out of criminals like Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, and Bonnie and Clyde, I think this makes Rittenhouse much more of a folk hero than anything George Floyd did. And if the left can build monuments to him, the right can certainly elevate Rittenhouse's stature somewhat.

absolutely
I did many dumb dumb things as a teenager both at home and abroad. still amazed i am alive to speak of it

Kyle should have stayed home or had an adult say "hey man sit this one out" based on the very volatile climate at the time politically. every little "thing" seemed to cause riots all over the country spurred on by Washington lawmakers adding fuel to the fire

[Jim Beaux]

The lack of youthful hero's is totally beside the point.
.
I wouldn't go near a riot. I wouldn't let my 17-yo go near a riot. I wouldn't send a 17-yo there on my behalf. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

The verdict I believe was right, but the very first mistake made was this 17 year old going to the riots as you said above. Even though you can doesn’t mean you always should.

I always tell my kids we can be in the right and still do the wrong thing.

I am proud of Kyle. He is a good kid. He has helped clean up after the rioters, removed graffiti, put out fires and helped those in need. He is a good example for others- but as a parent I would never let my kid go around a mob of rabid people, much less carrying a weapon.

It's gonna take a long time for him to come to terms about this. I hope he finds positive ways to do so.

[anygunanywhere]

So what age is appropriate for someone do provide assistance where lawlessness is occurring? He was there to help people. Yes, he has admitted it was not a wise decision, but his persecution by the Kenosha DA was not warranted either.

In our history, many young men and women younger than Kyle have shown their courage and patriotism by placing themselves in harms way to protect others.

I have known many teens/young adults who exhibit far more character than the majority of adults.

https://www.captainsjournal.com/2021/11 ... here-crap/

Edited to add link.

[anygunanywhere]

https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.co ... trols.html

Let's Hear it For Rittenhouse Patrols!

I like Aesop's perspective.

https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/20 ... -down.html

[tomneal]

Kurt Schlichter has an interesting take on updates to our Self Defense laws.

The entire article is worth a read. Schlichter also writes fiction and they are worth reading as well.

Here are some samples from Kurt's article.

Make the state disprove a self-defense claim at a special proceeding long before trial, then make the state disprove it again to a jury at trial.

Also, a person using force to defend himself against rioters must be presumed to use it lawfully.

The jury shall be instructed that unarmed individuals can pose a grave threat to armed individuals, and that a person attempting to take the weapon of the self-defender by force or threat of force shall be presumed to intend to use that weapon upon the self-defender." Try to take a piece? Better make your peace.

Let's also give the jury the full story and require that the entire criminal history of the target be revealed to the jury and that the jury be instructed that this history can be considered on the question of whether the self-defender was threatened.

And we just found out that the prosecutors in the Rittenhouse case were playing games with the evidence, substituting a hi-res version of a video for an unclear one that showed much less. We need a one strike rule for this kind of misconduct – if the DA cheats, the accused walks. Period. And not just in self-defense cases.

let's make the DA put some municipal skin in the game. Red legislatures must pass laws that ensure that not only does the locality have to pay all the defense costs of an acquitted accused, but the locality must pay his other damages, like lost wages and emotional distress. DAs, go ahead and charge him if you really believe it's not self-defense, but be prepared to put your money where your indictment is.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtsch ... 599239?180

Kurt did not include one of my pet peeves. There should be three possible verdicts: Guilty, Not Guilty, Innocent
In my opinion, Kyle Rittenhouse should have been found "Innocent".

On a side note. I saw photo's of the prosecutor pointing an AR at the jury. It didn't have sights. Did Kyle do all that Very Accurate shooting without sights?

[anygunanywhere]

Kurt Schlichter has an interesting take on updates to our Self Defense laws.

The entire article is worth a read. Schlichter also writes fiction and they are worth reading as well.

Here are some samples from Kurt's article.

Make the state disprove a self-defense claim at a special proceeding long before trial, then make the state disprove it again to a jury at trial.

Also, a person using force to defend himself against rioters must be presumed to use it lawfully.

The jury shall be instructed that unarmed individuals can pose a grave threat to armed individuals, and that a person attempting to take the weapon of the self-defender by force or threat of force shall be presumed to intend to use that weapon upon the self-defender." Try to take a piece? Better make your peace.

Let's also give the jury the full story and require that the entire criminal history of the target be revealed to the jury and that the jury be instructed that this history can be considered on the question of whether the self-defender was threatened.

And we just found out that the prosecutors in the Rittenhouse case were playing games with the evidence, substituting a hi-res version of a video for an unclear one that showed much less. We need a one strike rule for this kind of misconduct – if the DA cheats, the accused walks. Period. And not just in self-defense cases.

let's make the DA put some municipal skin in the game. Red legislatures must pass laws that ensure that not only does the locality have to pay all the defense costs of an acquitted accused, but the locality must pay his other damages, like lost wages and emotional distress. DAs, go ahead and charge him if you really believe it's not self-defense, but be prepared to put your money where your indictment is.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtsch ... 599239?180

Kurt did not include one of my pet peeves. There should be three possible verdicts: Guilty, Not Guilty, Innocent
In my opinion, Kyle Rittenhouse should have been found "Innocent".

On a side note. I saw photo's of the prosecutor pointing an AR at the jury. It didn't have sights. Did Kyle do all that Very Accurate shooting without sights?

The sights were probably removed for ease of storage or some other silly reason. They are probably on someone else's AR right now anyway.

[oljames3]

Legal Insurrection is doing a post-trial analysis on Sunday, 11/21/21, 6pm - 7:3pm CT.

Kyle Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all five counts. Legal Insurrection covered the trial as intensively as anyone. At this online event Attorney Andrew Branca of The Law of Self-Defense, and Prof. William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection Foundation and Cornell Law School, will go over the good, the bad, and the ugly of the case, and give you their perspectives. The event will be moderated by Kemberlee Kaye, Director of Operations and Editorial Development for the Legal Insurrection Foundation. There will be opportunity for Q&A.

Space is limited, so register now to reserve your spot!

https://legalinsurrectionfoundation.sal ... index.html

[chasfm11]

I could almost agree that none of this should make Rittenhouse a folk hero. Even knowing our history of making folk heroes out of criminals like Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, and Bonnie and Clyde, I think this makes Rittenhouse much more of a folk hero than anything George Floyd did. And if the left can build monuments to him, the right can certainly elevate Rittenhouse's stature somewhat.

[Paladin]

It looked to me like every shot Kyle took was point shooting. The rifle displayed in court had no sights. At some point previously the rifle apparently had a low dollar sight on it... I don't know why the sight was removed.

[C-dub]

I know people keep saying that he had no business bringing a rifle to a protest and no duty or right to be protecting another person's business. Especially with a rifle. I do have a different opinion or viewpoint.

He did not go to a protest with a rifle. The protest came to him.

[BigGuy]

I know people keep saying that he had no business bringing a rifle to a protest and no duty or right to be protecting another person's business. Especially with a rifle. I do have a different opinion or viewpoint.

He did not go to a protest with a rifle. The protest came to him.

I'm torn on this. I get the folks saying he shouldn't have gone to a trouble area armed. On the other hand, when the heck DO we stand up and say "Enough!" The advice to "wait on the professionals" carries less and less weight as police are defunded, and rioting, looting, and burning businesses is classified as "Mostly Peaceful protest." When do we pick up arms and protect the innocent?
I'd like to fix things at the polls, but do we trust them now?
My dad was a Green Beret stationed 100 miles south of the Fulda Gap In the early 1960S. We were there with him as military dependents. Sometimes I have imaginary conversations with my parents of that time. I try to explain to them what America of 2021 looks like. They don't believe me.

[03Lightningrocks]

The author says that Rittenhouse was not a hero. I disagree with that, too. I feel strongly that he made a mistake by going into the middle of that fray. But his heroic behavior stems from a very limited response to that attacks launched against him. He could have unleashed far more than he did - as much as CNN accused him of unleashing. But he didn't. He stopped the threats and stopped when they were no longer threats. That takes a level of restraint that many, perhaps even me, may not be able to duplicate in difficult circumstances.

I have to admit that I thought to myself more than once that I likely would have had a much higher body count. I think for a young man his age he reacted remarkably when it came to when he used deadly force and when he did not. Personally, I might have found me a corner to stand in and shoot as they approached. I just don't know.