Uvalde School shooting

[Paladin]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

Secondly this sounds like a sideways admission that the Uvalde murderer was indeed the same person arrested several years ago for planning a school shooting in Uvalde.

[extremist]

I have no issues with adding juvenile records to NICS.

[RoyGBiv]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

[03Lightningrocks]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Some, maybe. But a kid who had a picture taken with a bag full of dead cats needs locked up in an insane asylum.

[K.Mooneyham]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Some, maybe. But a kid who had a picture taken with a bag full of dead cats needs locked up in an insane asylum.

THIS right here.

[RoyGBiv]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Some, maybe. But a kid who had a picture taken with a bag full of dead cats needs locked up in an insane asylum.

Not going to disagree with you there.

[KC5AV]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Agreed.
In the same way that some adults can benefit from talking to someone, some kids can, too. In the same way that it shouldn’t always disqualify adults, it shouldn’t always disqualify all kids.

[Mike S]

Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Some, maybe. But a kid who had a picture taken with a bag full of dead cats needs locked up in an insane asylum.

Not going to disagree with you there.

Totally agree that this piece of dung should have been locked up in a mental hospital. It seems that Texas already has laws that would have facilitated that, but nobody reported the 'bag of cats' or him making statements such as "all girls deserve to be raped", or threatening to kill people. He even said he was planning to attack a school, but others 'thought he was joking'.

Well, to more accurately state it, nobody reported it to anyone who did anything about it; other kids flagging/reporting it to the social media platform Yubo doesn't really count, especially if nobody tells an adult, or nobody reports it to the authorities AND THEN the authorities use the legal process to get threats put away.

Current Texas laws on involuntary commitment:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/texas- ... z7VRrnxOTV

Indicators that were overlooked, or not reported:
https://www.theverge.com/23149885/uvald ... on-failure

[03Lightningrocks]

I realize what I am about to post on here may not be real popular to many of you but I am not feeling a lot of anxiety of making the legal age to buy a rifle 21. They already have to be 21 to buy a handgun. Todays 18 year old kids are not the same we were at 18. They are much less mature and responsible. Todays 18 year old is the 16 year old from 25 or more years ago.

[srothstein]

I have several problems with these changes. My first question is if the proposed change would have prevented the shooting that provoked the law (or any other). The only proposal that MIGHT have avoided this shooting was raiding the age to 21 to buy the weapon. I disagree with this based on my belief that a person is either an adult or not. Whatever age we have for being considered an adult should be the same for ALL adult decisions. If I can trust an 18 year old to vote or defend the country, how can I not trust him with a rifle or pistol or buying alcoholic beverages? If it goes along with raising the voting age and the age of consent for sex or marriage, etc. then I can support this.

My problem with allowing juvenile records is that it does no good. It might help on involuntary commitments by courts, but that is a very small chance of doing anything, especially for juveniles. It cannot help on criminal records because juveniles are not convicted of crimes in Texas. They are shown in a civil trial to be guilty of conduct in need of supervision, with an underlying basis of whatever they were arrested for. This is not disqualifying yet (I think). So, this could be done if other laws were changed, but do we really want to take away anyone's rights based on civil offenses? Or do we change Texas law to allow juveniles to be criminally charged and convicted (which I might be able to support). And of course, children under 10 are not even allowed to be charged with CINS, let alone criminal charges.

What the liberals are trying to do is a simple answer to a very complicated problem, if we assume they are actually trying to solve a problem and not just seize more power for the government using this as an excuse (which is what I think they are doing). The correct solution is going to involve a lot of cultural changes to restore discipline and respect where it is certainly missing today. It will also take changes in mental health care, which involves a lot of expense.

[philip964]

I realize what I am about to post on here may not be real popular to many of you but I am not feeling a lot of anxiety of making the legal age to buy a rifle 21. They already have to be 21 to buy a handgun. Todays 18 year old kids are not the same we were at 18. They are much less mature and responsible. Todays 18 year old is the 16 year old from 25 or more years ago.

Recently with two 18 yo mass shooters buying a semi automatic rifle just before they committed the mass shooting, it seems logical to try and some how discover or prevent this attack.

Since juvenile records are sealed, these 18 yo’s can be children with big problems, but the moment they turn 18 they are angels in the laws eye.

Family members, and others have repeatedly failed to realize how dangerous their former child is. On line sites have failed to notify anyone and even if any one raised an alarm probably nothing would happen.

Waiting period for under 21 yo purchases? Limiting under 21 to bolt action rifles unless active military?

I’m over 21, so it’s easy for me to make rules that don’t affect me.

Cowardly sneak suicide attacks are difficult to defend for. Not impossible but still difficult.

Each time things that were suppose to be done, don’t happen.

Columbine happened a long time ago. Schools are still unprepared.

The mass school shooting in a high school near Houston four years ago, the student just borrowed his dads unsecured shot gun, simple as that. No gun law could have prevented that outside of a total gun ban and 400 million gun confiscation.

End school gun free zones for licensed concealed carriers would be a good start. It would at least end the soft target problem they have now.

[03Lightningrocks]

I have several problems with these changes. My first question is if the proposed change would have prevented the shooting that provoked the law (or any other). The only proposal that MIGHT have avoided this shooting was raiding the age to 21 to buy the weapon. I disagree with this based on my belief that a person is either an adult or not. Whatever age we have for being considered an adult should be the same for ALL adult decisions. If I can trust an 18 year old to vote or defend the country, how can I not trust him with a rifle or pistol or buying alcoholic beverages? If it goes along with raising the voting age and the age of consent for sex or marriage, etc. then I can support this.

My problem with allowing juvenile records is that it does no good. It might help on involuntary commitments by courts, but that is a very small chance of doing anything, especially for juveniles. It cannot help on criminal records because juveniles are not convicted of crimes in Texas. They are shown in a civil trial to be guilty of conduct in need of supervision, with an underlying basis of whatever they were arrested for. This is not disqualifying yet (I think). So, this could be done if other laws were changed, but do we really want to take away anyone's rights based on civil offenses? Or do we change Texas law to allow juveniles to be criminally charged and convicted (which I might be able to support). And of course, children under 10 are not even allowed to be charged with CINS, let alone criminal charges.

What the liberals are trying to do is a simple answer to a very complicated problem, if we assume they are actually trying to solve a problem and not just seize more power for the government using this as an excuse (which is what I think they are doing). The correct solution is going to involve a lot of cultural changes to restore discipline and respect where it is certainly missing today. It will also take changes in mental health care, which involves a lot of expense.

I have considered the military age thing. Under a situation of joining the military, an 18 year old is under strict supervision concerning firearm handling. They are trained and watched by experts in firearms handling. It would be easy enough to put in an exemption for any 18 year old actively serving in the military. The very process of spending 2 months in basic training/boot camp will have a tendency to weed out the mentally unstable. It will also teach them discipline and respect. Otherwise, they will wash out. Most of us older folks grew up with fathers in the picture at some point and society demanded we act in ways that kids these days simply are not expected to act. I still go back to my observation that 18 year old males are nothing like an 18 year old male from 25 years ago or more. I blame parenting as a huge part in it. But that does not change the fact that the maturity level of todays 18 year old is more comparable to a 16 year old from days long past.

The drinking age for buying alcohol was raised due to the high statistics of bad consequences from allowing 18 year olds easy access to booze. I was already 21 when they raised the age to 21. 18 year olds still get liquor and beer. Funny thing is, when the age was 18 to drink, I was able to walk into most liquor stores at 16 and buy booze. There were not many laws back then about carding everyone and at 16, I looked and carried myself like I was 18. Most of my 16 year old friends considered me the designated buyer. But I know for sure I could not have walked in at 16 and passed for 21. I also remember it was legal to drive around drinking a beer. Back in those days, there was many a time the cops would catch our young stupid butts with cases of beer and simply make us pour it all out on the ground before telling us to get out of the park at the lake and ending our nights early.

Another issue I believe is affecting some of these psychotic teens is marijuana. Todays marijuana is not the same drug we would indulge in 40 years ago. We were experimenting with weed that had maybe 3- 5% THC. The stuff teens smoke now is 25% THC at the low end and much higher in many strains. Especially when they start using pot to make "dabs" and other concentrates. For any of those who may have indulged as a teen, imagine smoking it at 20 times the potency. It has long been admitted by all scientists, even today, that THC can induce psychosis in a certain percentage of society. I remember the friends who use to smoke 40 years ago who would lose their crap and get paranoid from even the low end stuff. In the old days it was simply funny as the THC level was weak enough that they didn't go nuts. Imagine that same reaction of the brain in todays level of THC.

Heck, my mom tells me stories of my dad dragging me along into the woods hunting with him when I was 3-4 years old. She said it made her nuts but my dad was a good old boy from eastern Kentucky. My earliest memories of shooting hand guns were at 5 years old. Down by the creek, shooting cans and rocks.

We grew up watching shows like the Rifleman, Bonanza and The Brady Bunch. I was 18 before I ever saw a movie with serious blood and guts. It was a movie about Jack The Ripper traveling through time and it almost made me sick watching it. Now kids grow up playing violent video games with realistic blood and guts all over the place and they are emersed in violent TV shows with violence as 75% of the movie. Usually gun violence by the same movie stars who want to take away all guns. Music video by "gansta rappers" glorify killing and shooting the other guy for "respect" in da hood.

Times and society have changed and sometimes we are forced to make changes to meet those new times. Raising the age to purchase a rifle does not stop a father or mom from buying a firearm for their 18 year old. I bought my son his first deer rifle when he was 8 years old. It was a Remington BDL in .243. He was taught safe firearm handling and I darn guarantee you, if he was acting like a delinquent, he would never have had access to that rifle. That crazy animal that shot up those kids would never had talked his mom into buying him an AR15. My guess is that she probably has a record of felony drug charges and could not have done it if she wanted. I know his grand pa could not buy one. He was a felon. I bet gramps knew he had the weapons in the house but won't admit it because it would violate the terms of his felony record and send him to prison.

I am not delusional enough to believe that this alone would stop these kinds of things but it is a fairly easy thing to imagine it making it harder in many cases. My number one belief is that we must harden the targets. Schools must be able to protect our precious children and grand children. It would be so very easy to harden the target in the case of schools. The first step is to get rid of the "gun free" laws in schools. Allow teachers who are willing to receive training and carry concealed. One entrance in and out where practical. Where multiple entry is called for, every entry has double doors with an armed guard at the door and metal detectors. These simple changes could be done by the time schools open back up after summer break! But the darned liberals refuse to allow this to happen.

[parabelum]

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Am I missing the age requirement somewhere?

[Paladin]

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Am I missing the age requirement somewhere?

Federal law defines the militia age at 17.

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Call me paranoid, but I don't believe the age of these shooters is coincidental.

[03Lightningrocks]

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Am I missing the age requirement somewhere?

I think that boat sailed off years ago. I had to wait until I was 21 to buy a handgun in 1982. I could buy a rifle at 18 with no NICS check. So they had already established age limits back then. I also remember when I could buy a full auto weapon at a gun show for less than 1000 bucks. So when we say, "shall not be infringed", we are actually talking about a fantasy that has not existed in decades.