Uvalde School shooting

[srothstein]

To clarify and answer the questions my post generated, you have to understand the difference between jurisdiction and authority, especially command authority. Jurisdiction is a combination of where you have legal authority to act and where you are employed. All peace officers in Texas are commissioned by Texas and have general jurisdiction to make an arrest anywhere in the state. There is one section of law that restricts the authority of county and municipal officers to the county that they are commissioned in. So, for example a Luling PD officer may write a ticket anywhere in Guadalupe or Caldwell Counties because his city is in both those counties, but he may make any other type of arrest anywhere in the state.

That means that DPS and Texas Rangers did have legal jurisdiction to act in the school shooting.

But then we have the question of what command authority they have. Can they simply walk in and tell a Uvalde CISD officer that they are now in charge and he must obey them? There is nothing in the law giving them any such command authority. They probably could have done this and the officers would not have argued about it too much, because no one knew what was going on in that situation and most of the officers were (IMO) looking for someone to do this anyway. In most cases, if an officer does this in other cases, the police officer will yield because he is too professional to argue on the scene and because cops are notoriously shy of taking authority. There is an old saying that you can't get fired if you do nothing (not always true but a decent rule of thumb for a lot of departments). But if the officer is old/salty or wants to do something his way, he could tell the DPS trooper to get out of his crime scene and would be 100% legally justified.

But that now gets us to the question of the county Sheriff. We used to have a law (clause in the Constitution) saying that the Sheriff is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of a county. I cannot find this law now, though I still find a reference to it on the Grayson County Sheriff's Office web page. One reason I might not have found it is that our Constitution is organized fairly strangely, listing the sheriff as part of the judicial branch of government. But even if it is still in effect, there would be the legal question of exactly what this means. When I first entered Texas law enforcement, I was taught it mean almost exactly what you would think and that the Sheriff could stop other agencies from working in his county. But this cannot possibly be true because the Constable is also a position created by the Constitution, so could a Sheriff overrule the Constitution? Could a Sheriff tell Luling that they could not have a police department if Luling is in two counties?

While it was Florida (I think) and not Texas, we recently had a video making the rounds where a city police officer and a county Sheriff were each threatening to arrest the other for interfering in their cases.

Now, please consider if we really want to have a law saying who can take over or not. When we have a real cluster going on, and no one seems to be making a decision or taking action, this might be a very desirable thing. But what if we have an incident going on and the town officers are handling it properly and a DPS trooper shows up and knows nothing of what is going on but wants to take charge because he can? And we all know there are too many officers who are strictly politicians who would do it for the opportunities it might have to enhance their career. And this does not take into account what would happen when the local chief says to his men to let the person take charge and clear the scene. He is the guy who signs their checks and they have departmental rules saying his order will be obeyed. This could make a bad situation much worse very quickly.

The bright side of this is that most cops are professionals and will work with each other. Our system is designed to be applied using common sense. Most of the times it works out well. But when it does fail, it fails spectacularly and may (in this case did) cost innocent people's lives.

[mojo84]

Steve, I really enjoy and appreciate the insight and explanations you provide on this forum. They help bring a lot of clarity and good information.

I have been thinking about how awkward it would be for a rank and file officer from the same or different agency to take control of a scene or situation when there is a high ranking officer such as a Chief of Police on the scene regardless how ineffective or indecisive that Chief, thinking Arredondo here, may be. Even though it may be awkward and somewhat risky from a career standpoint, at some point someone needs to take over, especially when innocent people are being murdered.

[Paladin]

Not every LEO in Uvalde stood down: Video Shows Cops Holding Back Officer Who Wanted to Save Wife From Gunman

[carlson1]

Not every LEO in Uvalde stood down: Video Shows Cops Holding Back Officer Who Wanted to Save Wife From Gunman

That was the one of the worst parts of the video I seen. DPS took him outside and took his gun away. I would have been livid and that would not have stopped me from getting to my precious wife. My heart goes out to him.

[Paladin]

Uvalde School District Moves to Fire Police Chief After Mass Shooting

[Paladin]

Uvalde Residents Want Consequences For Those Whose Failures Cost So Many Lives

This week, the Uvalde school board abruptly scheduled a meeting to discuss firing Arredondo, only to cancel it days later.

[philip964]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/texa ... y-cameras/

8 pivotal moments according to this TV news channel.

No one really talks about the fact that the classroom had windows to the outside that they could have used for suppressing fire and check to see if there were hostages or victims dieing.

The whole mess is just sad.

[parabelum]

Interesting…

“A Texas judge on Wednesday blocked the release of records regarding the state police response to the Uvalde elementary school mass shooting that left 19 children and two adults dead on May 24. ”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-judge- ... e-response

[Paladin]

Interesting…

“A Texas judge on Wednesday blocked the release of records regarding the state police response to the Uvalde elementary school mass shooting that left 19 children and two adults dead on May 24. ”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-judge- ... e-response

This makes it sound like a bureaucratic mix-up:

In a brief ruling, Travis County 419th Civil District Court Judge Catherine A. Mauzy said the Texas Department of Public Safety can withhold records regarding the Robb Elementary School massacre because state Sen. Roland Gutierrez did properly file a request under the Texas Public Information Act.

[philip964]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... rs-report/

27 billion dollar class action lawsuit filed on behalf of victims, defendants includes gun store and Daniel Defense.

In my opinion, and I am not a lawyer, class action lawsuits in cases like this sometimes do not benefit individual families as much as an individual lawsuit. However, individuals who were emotionally harmed by the events, such as other students who lost a friend or ambulance personal who had to see the carnage, or even law enforcement officers who emotionally suffered, could see cash payouts.

[carlson1]

From Chief Arredondo’s attorney. This is part of a letter thr attorney sent to the school board before the so-called “firing” of Chief Arredondo.

Hyde said Arredondo was a "courageous officer" who should be "celebrated for the lives saved, instead of vilified for those they couldn’t reach in time."

[03Lightningrocks]

From Chief Arredondo’s attorney. This is part of a letter thr attorney sent to the school board before the so-called “firing” of Chief Arredondo.

Hyde said Arredondo was a "courageous officer" who should be "celebrated for the lives saved, instead of vilified for those they couldn’t reach in time."

That man is a cowardly piece of garbage and I would love to tell him that to his fat ugly face.

[carlson1]

The Uvalde school board has fired Chief Pete Arredondo over the police response to the school shooting in May.

[Rafe]

The Uvalde school board has fired Chief Pete Arredondo over the police response to the school shooting in May.

The vote to terminate was unanimous. Nary a dissenter to be found... https://abc13.com/society/uvalde-school ... /12160915/

[philip964]

"Chief Arredondo will not participate in his own illegal and unconstitutional public lynching and respectfully requests the Board immediately reinstate him, with all backpay and benefits and close the complaint as unfounded," Arredondo's attorney, George Hyde, wrote in a 17-page letter that was sent out less than an hour before the meeting.