Glazer safety slugs

[tboesche]

Any body use these as a defense load. I carry a 9MM, currently loaded with 115gr JHP's. One of my concerns with carrying the 9mm is over penetration. SUPPOSEDLY, the GSS rounds help prevent over penetration. But do they transfer enough energy to stop an advancing target, without having to unload a full mag.

If I could afford to buy a .45 cal I would. I have always believed that that big ole bullet hits harder, However, I can not afford to buy a new weapon so I carry what I have, which is one of 2 9mm's. A CZ-75B or a Taurus PT-111. I just want to be able to transfer as much knock down power as possible, should I ever have to use my weapon for defense.

Thoughts??????

[HighVelocity]

I am not a believer in specialty ammo like the GSS, magtechs, extreme shock, etc. It's all marketing hokus pokus designed to seperate you from your money.

A good, PROVEN, jacketed hollowpoint from any major manufacturer is all you need. Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Federal Hydrashok, Remington Golden Sabre etc.

Whatever ammo you choose is going to need to be tested in your gun. How many rounds of GSS are you going to shoot to determine that it's accurate and reliable in your gun? That could be a pretty expensive venture.
FWIW, I had 6 rounds of GSS in 357 mag and fired them from a S&W with a 4" barrel at 10 yards. The accuracy was very poor. It also hit 6" low.
A complete waste of money in my opinion.

[Xander]

I am not a believer in specialty ammo like the GSS, magtechs, extreme shock, etc. It's all marketing hokus pokus designed to seperate you from your money.

A good, PROVEN, jacketed hollowpoint from any major manufacturer is all you need. Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Federal Hydrashok, Remington Golden Sabre etc.

Whatever ammo you choose is going to need to be tested in your gun. How many rounds of GSS are you going to shoot to determine that it's accurate and reliable in your gun? That could be a pretty expensive venture.
FWIW, I had 6 rounds of GSS in 357 mag and fired them from a S&W with a 4" barrel at 10 yards. The accuracy was very poor. It also hit 6" low.
A complete waste of money in my opinion.

[Kalrog]

I am not a believer in specialty ammo like the GSS, magtechs, extreme shock, etc. It's all marketing hokus pokus designed to seperate you from your money.

A good, PROVEN, jacketed hollowpoint from any major manufacturer is all you need. Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Federal Hydrashok, Remington Golden Sabre etc.

Whatever ammo you choose is going to need to be tested in your gun. How many rounds of GSS are you going to shoot to determine that it's accurate and reliable in your gun? That could be a pretty expensive venture.
FWIW, I had 6 rounds of GSS in 357 mag and fired them from a S&W with a 4" barrel at 10 yards. The accuracy was very poor. It also hit 6" low.
A complete waste of money in my opinion.

[MoJo]

Glasers and other prefragmented ammunition don't penetrate deeply enough to be reliable stoppers. Do what High Velocity says and load up with reliable JHP ammo from a major manufacturer.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Glasers and other prefragmented ammunition don't penetrate deeply enough to be reliable stoppers. Do what High Velocity says and load up with reliable JHP ammo from a major manufacturer.

The cemetaries are full of people who have been shot with 9mm's. It has plenty of stopping power.

Try out different hollowpoint rounds and see which gives the best reliability. Then go with that.

I'm no combat authority, but from what I've read about ammo (various tests, etc.) I think the differeences in real world effectiveness among the various brands out there are insignificant. Shot placement and reliability are 10 times more important.

[flb_78]

I'd rather be missed with a .45 then shot with a .22

I wouldn't place too much faith in ammo that's too expensive to practice with.

[srothstein]

I have carried Glasers in the past for my off duty use. I like them and trust them to do exactly what they claim they will. My personal tests showed plenty of penetration with no over penetration, but I have to admit they were not scientific tests.

I also agree that they are not nearly as necessary as some people think. They work well to stop ricochets and reduce overpenetration. A good hollowpoint will also work well for you. In all cases, shot placement is much more important than caliber or bullet design.

My only real complaint with the Glasers is the price. While I like and trust them, I do not like them as much as Glaser does.

[tboesche]

Great responses. Thanks guys. I'll stick with the Hollow points that I carry now. I am familiar with their ballistics in both guns and am comfortable shooting them.

[Liko81]

There is some merit to the theory of using a slug like a GSS as a first shot. The vast majority of people who know and care that they have been hit will be incapacitated, at least psychologically, by any bullet hit. Therefore a fragmenting shot like a GSS that does not penetrate deeply will be less lethal and allow Sparky to face charges. If Sparky doesn't want to lay on the ground after being shot once, the "real" rounds in the mag will be more persuasive of that action.

However, that assumes some very ideal conditions. It first assumes your first shot hits and more specifically hits in an area that is non-lethal, and second assumes you have time for more than one shot. A called shot with your adrenaline going and your life on the line is unreasonable to expect of yourself even if you are a crack shot. Also, if you need to stop someone RIGHT NOW, you want each round chambered to be as damaging as possible from the first to the last, because you don't know how many or which ones wil hit and where.

Buy a box of HydraShoks (or whatever; Federals are more widely available and thus slightly cheaper in my area). Load a mag (or two) with them. Place the mag in your pistol, chamber the first round, and keep the gun with you everywhere that is allowable by law. If the day ever comes when you MUST fire that weapon in anger, draw swiftly, aim surely, and pull the trigger until the bad guy drops. Anything less puts you in even more danger than the situation itself presents.

However, if there's any conceivable way you can avoid pulling the trigger, even if you have drawn with the intention of using it, then take that road. If Sparky puts his hands up and lies down on the ground when you draw and present, there's no need to pull the trigger. Now I'm not saying hesitate. Just maintain the presence of mind to know when a shot is and is not necessary to protect yourself, so you can make that determination in the split second you'll have. Remember, a grand jury, and a jury-jury, will have as long as it wants to scrutinize what everyone said and did. You pull that trigger the very second you decide there is no other way, but not before, and a jury in Texas will give you a fair hearing and most likely no-bill or acquit.

[stroo]

I disagree with most of the posts above other than Srothstein. From everything I have read, frangibles stop bad guys very well regardless of penetration. Also inside a house or apartment, frangibles are less likely to penetrate walls with enough power to seriously injure your child or neighbor. So inside my home, I prefer frangibles like Glaser.

Having said that I would prefer to have a good hollow point for a gun I am taking out of the house. Frangibles quite often because they are light, high velocity bullets, are not accurate at longer ranges and lose power at longer ranges, i.e even 10-25 yards. So I would rather have a hollow point then.

So I generally keep one frangible in the pipe, keep different magazines loaded with frangibles and hps and change out my magazines depending on whether I am in the house or going out. Different tools for different purposes.

If you are going to rely on one bullet for all purposes, I would agree that a good hollow point is better.

[Liko81]

I disagree with most of the posts above other than Srothstein. From everything I have read, frangibles stop bad guys very well regardless of penetration. Also inside a house or apartment, frangibles are less likely to penetrate walls with enough power to seriously injure your child or neighbor. So inside my home, I prefer frangibles like Glaser.

Frangibles stop BGs psychologically. It's painful to be shot. However, in order to be incapacitated psychologically, you must know and care that you've been shot. A crackhead breaking into your apartment for drug money might be high right then, just like the guy in the alley, and they won't care. Also, someone breaking into your house with the sole intention of killing you is going to do his utmost, and a stomach full of shrapnel, even if it untimately proves fatal, will not keep him on the ground. Frangibles also don't work well when the BG is behind a couple of layers of leather or heavy denim. Penetration through ballistic gel after going through anything else on its way there shows that the fragments will not contact major organs or arteries except by sheer luck.

On the other hand, a frangible is still quite capable of going through a non-load-bearing wall and can hurt people on the other side. A hollow-point would be more damaging, but it's also more of a sure thing; if your round doesn't take out the BG, your daughter being in the next room doesn't make any difference, shot or no shot. What matters is that you stop the BG in your room before he proceeds to hers, and for that I personally want the most damaging bullet I can control in rapid fire.

[txinvestigator]

There is no definitive way bad guys behave when shot. We have all oohed at the guy shot by multiple rounds who continued his deadly assault.

Frangibles CAN stop a bad guy, but there is no guarantee. Same as hollow points.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

From the Box o'truth
Started out with some ammo that Arowneragain sent me, some Glazer Blue Tip 9mm. I shot it out of my Beretta and it went through 6 boards of drywall and dented the 7th.

We use deadly force and shoot center mass because shots with deadly potential are most likely to make the BG stop his unlawful deadly assault against us. If I don't want the potential for the BG to die, I ought not shoot him. ;)