Katy Mills Mall & Bass Pro Shops

[gamboolman]

The wife & I went to Katy Mill Mall yesterday. Specifically to go the Bose store. Had to take my gun off which I did as the Mall is 30.06 posted !
I know I should know this stuff but I did not know the Mall was 30.06 posted - but is the parking lot also posted?? I did not see any signage.

We live up North towards The Woodlands and I know that this topic has probably been beat to death, but I did not know/remember/realize - anyhow I sent the Mall property owner the following email that is attached down below, and I went to Bass Pro Shops and they had a non-legal sign up.

Please see #1 below for Bass Pro Shops info, and #2 for the Mall Info.

Thanks, gamboolman & gamboolgal....

#1) - Bass Pro Shops - Katy Mills Mall Location:
We did walk the Mall as I wanted to go to Bass Pro Shops. At Bass Pro Shops I saw a sign ( not legal ) saying that all guns had to be checked - not a problem for me that day since I had left my gun in the truck to be in compliance with the Mall 30.06 sign.
Anyway I asked one of the clerks if the sign was applicable to CHL's?? He said it was and I questioned him to be sure he understood I was talking about legal CHL holders coming into Bass Pro Shops from the outside entrance Not from inside the Mall.
He said "Yes - it is to protect the customers"
I wrote Bass Pro Shops and got a corporate response saying that Bass Pro Shops does require current lawfull CHL Holders to disarm - but they can't comment on the Mall Policy.
I have asked them to clarify about entering the Bass Pro Shops from the parking lot and not inside the Mall? Still waiting on response.

#2: Katy Mills Mall - Operated by Simon Corp:
But for the Katy Mills Mall that is operated by the Simon Corp., I went to the Mall Office and left my business card and one of the Tx State Rifle Rifle Association Cards, that says No-Guns - No-Money for the Manager along with a message informing him I and my family would not return to the Mall due to their policy.

I sent the following to The Simon Corp today. Have not got a response yet. Will let the forum know when/if I get a response from Simon.

" Gentlemen,
My wife and I went to Katy Mills Mall for the 1st time yesterday. We live in Spring, Texas real close to the Woodlands Mall and that is where my wife and family go all of the time.
However, we went to the Katy Mills Mall because of a particular store, Bose. While there I bought what I wanted and then we walked the mall and spent ~$750 for the afternoon. We were very favorably impressed with the Mall. Our daughter is a Sr. in High School and a member of the dance team and my wife was saying how the girls on the Dance Team would love your mall.

Unfortunately - no one from my family will return to Katy Mills Mall and we will tell everyone we know that we do not recommend your Katy Mill Mall location.

The reason is that the Mall is posted with a 30.06 sign prohibiting lawfully licensed Concealed Handgun Permit Holders from entering the Mall while carrying their Concealed Weapon.

We respect your right to manage and run your property as you choose. I did not carry in the Mall and I will not, because I will not ever return to the Katy Mills Mall location ever again, nor will any of my family members.

We would love to hear from your Senior Management as to why you choose to prohibit lawfully licensed CCW from entering your property. Does your management not understand that CHL holders in the State of Texas have been through a rigorous background check, and are overall honest law abiding citizens?? I wonder if your management really comprehends this?

Thanks, Mr. & Mrs. gamboolman.... "

[TDDude]

He said "Yes - it is to protect the customers"

From What?

Not shopping there, letting corporate know, posting on every gun forum you can find....

Eventually things will change I hope.

Unfortunately, Texas will need another Luby's for those out of town management jaspers to get the message.

I have no idea if they are from out of town but they should be.

[Mike1951]

gamboolman,

Unless I'm mistaken, your post contains some new and alarming information.

First, some of us have fought The Mills Corp. since 1996 without any success. In a previous thread, it was discussed that The Mills Corp. might soon have a new owner. Therefore, we held out hope that the new owners would be more reasonable.

Apparently, the purchase by Simon occurred last year and from the information in your post, they must be as ignorant as the last owners.

Second, the rule about inspecting firearms in Bass Pro Shops had been determined several times to only apply to guns brought in for trade or repairs or range work in those locations with a range. Several members here got answers that the policy did not apply to CHL.

Either that has changed or you were unfortunate enough to get a succession of lower and mid-level management types who didn't know the answer and gave an incorrect interpretation.

While Katy and Grapevine Mills have been debated to death, I hope this draws some of the previous posters back to discuss whether renewed efforts with Simon could have a positive effect.

[stevie_d_64]

Either I have not noticed, or even seen any restrictive signage at the new BPS at BW8 and 288 south of Houston...So I am not sure if its a corporate wide policy there...I would not be surprised if it was, but since there has not been anything I have noticed at the one place I have been to a few times...I cannot say much more about that...

Again, it is probably wise to not say anything to any employee of such a place...The reason they say you cannot, is because their employer says "they" cannot..."To protect the customers"...They do not understand, nor will they care to tell you anything more than what they were told themselves in a company orientation, and as a condition of employment themselves...

This is typical of corporate America...Your employers are driven by insurance underwriters to restrict you from carrying a firearm on their property so they can be insured basically...Never mind if the temperament of the owners and managers of said properties are for or against the issue...

If the sign is not compliant in all regards to the law, technically you'd only take the ride if caught, but it'll cost you...But their intent is clear in that they are posting something to restrict those who dare not tread where Eagles soar...(Man that sounded kinda cool, but that's beside the point...)

Nothing is going to change anytime soon in this particular fight, so I would probably reside myself to the fact that there are lots of other places to spend your hard earned money that with the Mills corporation properties, or any other establishments that do not respect you...Plain and simple...

[gamboolman]

Mr. Mike1951,

The secretary at the office said Simon and I did not look at the cards close.
I was not clear, the card I got says:

The Mills - A Simon Company

So it must still be the same owner as yawl have been having ongoing discussions with???

I have received a standard automated form response from SIMON, and have posted it below:

Thank you for your message!
We appreciate your interest and feedback. A representative from Simon will respond to your question or comments as soon as possible.

Simon.com
Simon Property Group, Inc.
225 West Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

I will post the response as soon as I get it.

Thanks, gamboolman....

[Mike1951]

So it must still be the same owner as yawl have been having ongoing discussions with???

Nope. Found this posted on the Simon Properties page:

On March 29, 2007, SPG and Farallon announced that together with shares owned by funds managed by Farallon, approximately 96.8% of the outstanding common shares of The Mills Corporation had been tendered and were accepted for payment. In the merger, all outstanding common shares of The Mills Corporation were converted into the right to receive the same $25.25 in cash per share as paid in the tender offer, without interest.

The portfolio is comprised of two distinctive types of assets -- regional malls and Mills properties -- totaling over 45 million square feet of gross leasable area. A Mills property typically comprises well over one million square feet of gross leasable area and has a combination of traditional mall, outlet center and big box retailers and entertainment uses, all focused on delivering value for the consumer. These assets are well-located in major metropolitan markets, have considerable consumer brand equity and large trade areas, and generate significant total sales volumes. The Mills® is our fifth retail real estate platform.

So apparently, Simon took over last March.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Either I have not noticed, or even seen any restrictive signage at the new BPS at BW8 and 288 south of Houston...So I am not sure if its a corporate wide policy there...I would not be surprised if it was, but since there has not been anything I have noticed at the one place I have been to a few times...I cannot say much more about that...

I was at that store both yesterday and today. (I was visiting Houston on business.) They have non-compliant "Guns must be checked" signage at the entrance.

I ignored it and carried anyway.

It's a nice store. I picked up some ammo at pretty reasonable prices and a few other accessories, drooled over some of the Lecia and Zeiss binoculars (and some nice Leopolds too), and checked out the handgun selection. (Ruger MK III for under $300. Not bad for a quality plinker or first bullseye gun.)

Since they have suggestion boxes all over the place, I took the opportunity to fill out a card saying, "Lose the 'Guns must be checked' signs, as they are insulting to CHLs."

[Mike1951]

From a previous thread:

by Braden on Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:47 pm

I have excellent news. It appears the gentleman at the door was misinformed on company policy. I just received the e-mail below from the store manager:

Let me first apologize for the misunderstanding and clearly state what our policy is for firearms entering the building:

All known firearms entering the building whether for range use or gunsmithing or simple scope mounting are required to be checked to insure the firearm is unloaded and then a trigger lock is placed on the firearm for its travel throughout the building to insure the safety of all customer and associates at Bass Pro Shops. You would be surprised how many customers have claimed their firearm is not loaded and upon checking, it is in fact is! The lone exception to this is if a customer comes in carrying a concealed handgun on their person and is licensed to carry that concealed firearm. We will not ask to see the firearm, because technically it is a concealed gun and we have no right to ask. We will also not check or lock any duty piece a licensed enforcement officer may me carrying as a duty or off duty weapon. Any other firearm that enters the building, other than the previous mentioned exception will be checked and a trigger lock applied as you duly noted for safety reason.

It appears our associate was incorrect in how you were dealt with and we will retrain the associate and correct the problem. Our associate made a mistake, and I again apologize for that. It is our only intention to insure the safety of all people in our building, customers and associates, have the confidence they are in a safe environment.

I hope this clarifies our position and answers any concerns you may have. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of any help or you wish to discuss this more. I can be reached at 972-691-5201.

Sincerely,

David Battye
General Manager
Bass Pro Shops

[gamboolman]

Good news from todays response from Bass Pro Shops Corporate Management.
They said it is fine for CHL's to carry in their Katy Mills Mall location - Not a problem !

Regarding the Mall itself:
Still waiting to hear from Simon Company regarding my email to them, and from my leaving a message and business cards with the local Mall Manager - Still have not heard from either one.
Will post response(s) - if and when I get them.

Thanks, gamboolman...

[XDguy]

by Braden on Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:47 pm

I have excellent news. It appears the gentleman at the door was misinformed on company policy. I just received the e-mail below from the store manager:

Let me first apologize for the misunderstanding and clearly state what our policy is for firearms entering the building:

All known firearms entering the building whether for range use or gunsmithing or simple scope mounting are required to be checked to insure the firearm is unloaded and then a trigger lock is placed on the firearm for its travel throughout the building to insure the safety of all customer and associates at Bass Pro Shops. You would be surprised how many customers have claimed their firearm is not loaded and upon checking, it is in fact is! The lone exception to this is if a customer comes in carrying a concealed handgun on their person and is licensed to carry that concealed firearm. We will not ask to see the firearm, because technically it is a concealed gun and we have no right to ask. We will also not check or lock any duty piece a licensed enforcement officer may me carrying as a duty or off duty weapon. Any other firearm that enters the building, other than the previous mentioned exception will be checked and a trigger lock applied as you duly noted for safety reason.

It appears our associate was incorrect in how you were dealt with and we will retrain the associate and correct the problem. Our associate made a mistake, and I again apologize for that. It is our only intention to insure the safety of all people in our building, customers and associates, have the confidence they are in a safe environment.

I hope this clarifies our position and answers any concerns you may have. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of any help or you wish to discuss this more. I can be reached at 972-691-5201.

Sincerely,

David Battye
General Manager
Bass Pro Shops

I got a similar response fromt he manager at their Grapevine location. He did however say that if the gun was fired at the range it was no longer considered concealed and that the ranger master needed to apply a trigger lock on the way out. Seems like a stupid rule to me since they allow you to carry concealed through the store to the range. Most of the guys working the range remember that I wasn't locked coming in so they don't hassle me. The ones that insist on locking my trigger just get handed the rimfire and not my carry gun. Seems to satisfy them.

[frankie_the_yankee]

I like the way Cabela's does it better. I was at their Buda store today. The sign at the entrance stated that all guns must be checked. Right below that was a statement that, "This does not apply to holders of concealed carry licenses".

Made me feel welcome.

[Nazrat]

I was at Gander last night in Beaumont and their sign was similar to the Cabela's sign in that it states at the bottom that it does not apply to CHL holders.

[TEX]

I don't know where in the world you guys get this "Katy Mills Mall is posted" stuff. I have been in that mall hundreds of times and never seen any 30:06 signs. Maybe its because I alwasy go in through the Bass Pro Shop, Steve and Barrys, Circuit City, or Neimans, I am trying to remember now - huum, what is the key decriptive word in Concealed Carry - it escapes right now! It does little to no good to write to the people who own or operate the mall. They are emontionally tied to thier fear and loathing of firearms and even a thousand people complaining doesn't mean squat top them. They make their money from the rent the shops or stores pay and they get the same amount whether 25,000 people a month enter the mall or if 24,000 people a month enter the mall. If you want to make a dent, and it will be a microsopic dent, then write to the corporate headquarters of the shops in the mall and not the mall itself.

TEX