What constitutes a "school"?

[GlockenHammer]

We all know our CHL doesn't allow carry into schools (PC 46.03 (a)(1)), but beyond the obvious elementary, middle and high schools, what constitutes a school or educational institution? As I recall, they don't have to post, so the onus is on us to figure it out. What about the daycare? What if the daycare is a friend's mom you pay to watch your child also? Is there any case law or other guidance here?

[Chris]

primary and secondary schools, public or private, and any property operated, leased, rented, or otherwise utilized by an educational entity.

daycare is a private business and can be regulated by the owner.

[GlockenHammer]

Thanks, Chris.

That makes sense. I guess if it has any connection to the local "ISD", then it's off limits. I like the idea of the daycares being a business, even if they offer "private kindergarten".

GH

[ralewis]

I think even daycares/preschools are off limits as schools. Personally, i dont' carry when im pick my 5 year old up at his preschool. I believe the definintion of a school is intentionally broad, and applies to preschools, daycares, or any other sort of educational gatering involving children. (like Sunday School at a church even though the Church is ok if it's not posted 30.06)

[Braden]

"School" also means colleges and universities, correct??

[Chris]

"School" also means colleges and universities, correct??

yes.

[cpick]

You can keep your concealed handgun locked inside your vehicle while on a school campus, right?

[Charles L. Cotton]

You can keep your concealed handgun locked inside your vehicle while on a school campus, right?

Yes you can.

Welcome to the forum.

Chas.

[dglockster]

Does "school" mean only inside the buildings or does it also include the parking lot and outside grounds? For example, East Field Community College has a walking/jogging track for public use. If I use the track do I need to leave my gun at home because I will also park in a campus lot in order to access the track?

BTW, this track is where an assault on a couple occurred several years ago. The man was shot and killed and the woman was raped.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Dglockster:
You do not have to leave your gun in the car under all circumstances, but be careful with the fact pattern you describe.

Guns are prohibited on the “premises� of a school. Tex. Penal Code §46.03( a)(1). “Premises� is defined as follows: “Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.� Tex. Penal Code §46.03(a))(1) adopting the definition found in §46.035(f)(3). Thus, since a track is a walkway, it should not be prohibited area.

Here is the potential trap. §46.03(a)(1) is a little unique in that it doesn’t prohibit carry only on the “premises,� it expands the prohibition to include “any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, . . .� Tex. Penal Code §46.03(a)(1). I believe the intent of this language is to render “grounds� off-limits for activities like pep rallies, organized activities like Greek Week, band practice, football practice, etc. However, if the school or an officially recognized school organization is sponsoring a “let’s walk off the beer we poured down last night� day at the school jogging track, then I believe it would be prohibited.

If there is no "sponsored" event on or around the track, you should be okay, but I could see an overzealous (a/k/a bored) campus cop making the arrest and a DA like Travis County’s rabid anti-gun, anti-CHL Ronnie Earl accepting the charges and prosecuting. (If I recall correctly, Earl sent the Sastrup (sp?) case to the Grand Jury 3 times, literally begging for an indictment on the third trip, but refused to even investigate, much less charge, Travis County Constable Bruce Elfant for his alleged use of County money to run around the country testifying against CHL in other states.)

So, there is some risk in carrying on a track, but that risk comes from what I believe to be misreading and misapplying §46.03(a)(1), or for political reasons, so the degree of risk will vary by location. That’s the end of my analysis of the statutes involved. What would I do? I'd carry the pistol, so long as no organized activity was going on, but that’s just my opinion about what I’d do; it’s not advice for anyone else!

Regards,
Chas..

[Trainman]

This may be a dumb question, but what about carrying in a private enterprise college-campus bookstore that leases building from and operates with university approval. For example, the Efollet bookstore in a stand-alone building at UT Arlington?

Perhaps the answer should be obvious to me, and I probably would not carry because of my uncertainty.
But I wanted to pose the question just get the thoughts or readings from others.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Trainman:

A building owned by a university and used as a bookstore would be off-limits, even if the operation is contracted out to a private entity. The university’s ownership and its use are the key.

A less clear example arises when off-campus buildings are owned by a school, but only part of the building is used by students, faculty, or administration, with the remainder leased to private persons or entities. That one gets sticky!

Regards,
Chas.

[Trainman]

Thanks Chas,
The ownership being the key was kinda what I thought.
I don't go into the bookstore often, but when I do I leave the gun in the car.

[carlson1]

I figured this fit here. I would like to know if a Church has a school K-5 - 12th grade how does the law apply. School - no carry or Church - in my case it is OK. I would like maybe some "free" legal advice here. It determines rather I start a Christian School in 2007.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I figured this fit here. I would like to know if a Church has a school K-5 - 12th grade how does the law apply. School - no carry or Church - in my case it is OK. I would like maybe some "free" legal advice here. It determines rather I start a Christian School in 2007.

I intended to post this reference for you Carlson1, but I forgot. I ran across this again today talking to someone about TPC 9.04.

If it's your church and your school, you can give yourself written authorization to carry. Here is the relevant TPC Section:

§ 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or
recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club,
or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or
educational institution, any grounds or building on which an
activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being
conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or
educational institution, whether the school or educational
institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

When you issue the written authorization for yourself, give me one too, just for the heck of it. Actually, I see nothing in the statute that would prevent you authorizing all CHL's.

Regards,
Chas.