A true scenario

[attila79]

I meant to post this a long time ago, but I guess it’s never to late….

Over the holidays my wife and in-laws decided they wanted to spend Christmas in Taos, New Mexico. During our stay we decided to walk along the main road that gets you to one of their main attraction centers where most of the tourists go to spend some money and time.

While walking you quickly notice that it can get a bit congested along the main road with cars stopped with the many stop lights and pedestrian cross walks. During our walk two males in a pick-up truck start to harass my wife and her sister. I do want to point out that they were walking ahead of us so it may have seemed that they weren’t a part of our party (you guys can yell at me for this I know I deserve it). As they were honking and harassing my wife and her sister I quickly catch up to them and ask them to get behind me. By this time the pick-up moved ahead of us as the traffic moved forward, but we quickly caught up to them at the next red light. As soon as we exchanged looks all hell broke lose the passenger starts to motion as if he’s going to get out of the car. At this point I was not worried because I felt that I could take him down on my own.

However, things started to get ugly when the driver started to act like he was reaching for something from his back seat. At this point I really felt threatened because I had no idea what he was reaching for all I knew it could have been a shotgun, bat, etc... I quickly raised my jacket slightly just enough so that I could react and draw if I needed to. The driver quickly took note of me placing my hand at my hip and noticed I had a little surprise for him if he decided to make a stupid move. As soon has the light turned green the driver told the passenger something and they sped off never to return.

To be honest I was so irritated by this point that during the whole altercation I did not speak a word because I really did not have any think nice to say. All I was telling myself was to remain calm and not to escalate the problem. Looking back maybe I should of asked them nicely, but loudly that I did not want any trouble and to move along. A couple of fellow chl holders expressed that they would have drawn not knowing what he had in the back seat.


Suggestions, opinions, and advice please… a little bit of flaming is acceptable.

[seamusTX]

It sounds like you did the right thing under the circumstances. The goofs stopped their antics and maybe got a lesson that harassing women isn't such a good idea. No one got hurt. The police were not called.

Drawing or exposing a handgun in Texas is a tough decision because our concealed handgun law is strict in that respect. Some states are better and some are worse. I don't know where New Mexico falls in that spectrum.

You had plenty of witnesses to say that you were in the right, and it's likely the two goofs were not interested in talking to the police.

- Jim

[WarHawk-AVG]

And it seemed they were NOT interested in speaking into the pointy end of a CCW

You did good, you didn't draw but put the fear of God in them punks

[attila79]

After the situation is over you start to think that maybe you could of done something different. So it's good to hear others agreeing with my response towards these idiots.

[XDguy]

I'm on the fence on this one. Here in TX some might consider that to be brandishing. Probably shoud have called the police to report the incident. At least that way there would be no doubt who the good guy was.

[frankie_the_yankee]

After the situation is over you start to think that maybe you could of done something different. So it's good to hear others agreeing with my response towards these idiots.

IMO you did just fine. I think I would have acted in more or less the same way.

Back in RI a long time ago I made a move toward my gun, without exposing it, when my car got bumped from behind by 2 questionable characters on a snowy night. Not sure if they even noticed (I think they might have been drunk.) but when I got out to check out my back bumper, and made the move, they both decided to stay inside of their car. There was no damage and we all went on our way.

Your incident sounds potentially more serious. But in the end, no harm no foul. And I wouldn't call it brandishing.

So I'd say that was a good deal all around.

[srothstein]

While it is always very easy to second guess how things could have been handled, there is one easy way to see if you handled it right the first time.

Did you and all of the members of your party go home with no injuries or loss of property? If so, then you handled it right. In this case, that certainly appears to be true. There may or may not have been other ways to handle it, but you certainly chose one correct way.

[foodawg]

We had a guy in our class that said he had charges against him because he pulled a weapon on someone with a baseball bat in Austin.

The situation was supposedly an ex-boy friend showing up at their residence with a bat threatening them. It occurred in the front yard.

As the person with the bat advanced, he drew his weapon and told the person to drop the bat. He claimed that the LEO charged him with unlawful use of deadly force, even though he didn't fire. He stated that the "unlawful use of deadly force" was the drawing of the weapon, but the threat of force was the same as the use of force.

I'm not sure I understand that point of view.

Personally, I think there was more to it than that.

From my understanding, threat of use of force is legal in instances where threat of force is justified per TPC 9.04:
"§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force."

And I believe someone threatening you with a baseball bat would fall under:

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force
against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use
or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

But I'm no lawyer, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

[seamusTX]

I agree with your view of the law. If everything actually occurred as you wrote, I think charges will be dropped. (I add this if only because some people have a way of telling stories that favor their side.)

Was the ex-boyfriend arrested? Did the ex-girlfriend get a protective order?

[Later] WHOA! Was "our class" a CHL class? What was the guy doing there if he had pending charges?

- Jim

[aardwolf]

Suggestions, opinions, and advice please… a little bit of flaming is acceptable.

It sounds like you handled it in a responsible way and didn't escalate the situation.

My only suggestion is to act earlier. I'm not talking about the gun. These guys were causing a problem for a while so why not cross the street, go into a store or do something else to avoid the problem.

[attila79]

Suggestions, opinions, and advice please… a little bit of flaming is acceptable.

It sounds like you handled it in a responsible way and didn't escalate the situation.

My only suggestion is to act earlier. I'm not talking about the gun. These guys were causing a problem for a while so why not cross the street, go into a store or do something else to avoid the problem.

After the fact that suggestion of yours also crossed my mind, but if you've ever been to this little town it can be a bit dangerous crossing the street at any point besides a crosswalk. The cars were bumper to bumper and taking the risk of making my family cross where your not supposed to would be an unnecessary one. Let's not forget this was during the winter months so there was plenty of ice on the roads and the crosswalks seemed to have been treated for safe crossing.