Youth Correction Act Qualified?

[Blanco]

I am new to this forum and have a question concerning YCA conviction. 34 years ago I received a felony conviction under the Youth Correction Act for not registering a class three weapon and not paying the transfer tax. The conviction was vacated and I received a certificate of vacation from the feds. I have no criminal history in the state of Texas and none showing at the federal level. Youth offenders were not certified as adults so reading article 14 of the qualifications it specifically states that juveniles who have not had conviction in the last ten years are qualified if not certified as adults. Question: does this qualify as a juvenile conviction under the rule. Anyone out there with a legal background that could help with this question would be appreciated.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I am new to this forum and have a question concerning YCA conviction. 34 years ago I received a felony conviction under the Youth Correction Act for not registering a class three weapon and not paying the transfer tax. The conviction was vacated and I received a certificate of vacation from the feds. I have no criminal history in the state of Texas and none showing at the federal level. Youth offenders were not certified as adults so reading article 14 of the qualifications it specifically states that juveniles who have not had conviction in the last ten years are qualified if not certified as adults. Question: does this qualify as a juvenile conviction under the rule. Anyone out there with a legal background that could help with this question would be appreciated.

I am not familiar with that specific statute, but if you were not certified as an adult, then "felony" grade delinquent conduct for juveniles are only disqualifying for ten years. I think you should be fine.

Chas.

[KBCraig]

That's a federal conviction, and if the federal courts say it no longer exists, then it doesn't exist.

You will still have to list the arrest and explain (and document, if possible) the disposition. Be prepared to send additional information to DPS if requested.

I don't recall the exact timeline of their transition from Youth Facility to FCI, but it seems like 34 years ago a YCA conviction in this region would have taken you to El Reno. Is that right?

Good luck on the process.

Kevin

[Blanco]

Don't know where they would have sent me. I received 5 years probation and was released after serving only two. That was why I was qualified for the vacation of sentence. The reason for the original question is that this has caused a denial by the state. I got a lawyer and am fighting this. It would seem that the rules state that IF it could have been a felony, you are disqualified. State CHL lawyer ALWAYS fights each one of these cases all the way to the appeal court, regardless of lower court rulings. Rule 14 stating Juvenile convictions go away after 10 years has not been tested in the appeal court concerning youth crimes without adult certification. I am probably not going to be the one to test the law. I have already spent over a thousand fighting this and would expect it to cost around another ten to take this to the appeal court level. Just how much money would a sane person spend to carry concealed? I was hoping that someone out there might have some experience with this and could give some Advice. Everyone I have spoken to from the local sheriff on down has agreed with my position but the lawyers for the state refuse to budge. Thanks for the help.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Don't know where they would have sent me. I received 5 years probation and was released after serving only two. That was why I was qualified for the vacation of sentence. The reason for the original question is that this has caused a denial by the state. I got a lawyer and am fighting this. It would seem that the rules state that IF it could have been a felony, you are disqualified. State CHL lawyer ALWAYS fights each one of these cases all the way to the appeal court, regardless of lower court rulings. Rule 14 stating Juvenile convictions go away after 10 years has not been tested in the appeal court concerning youth crimes without adult certification. I am probably not going to be the one to test the law. I have already spent over a thousand fighting this and would expect it to cost around another ten to take this to the appeal court level. Just how much money would a sane person spend to carry concealed? I was hoping that someone out there might have some experience with this and could give some Advice. Everyone I have spoken to from the local sheriff on down has agreed with my position but the lawyers for the state refuse to budge. Thanks for the help.

I hate to ask a silly question, but are you talking about a Texas CHL application? DPS attorneys said you are disqualified?
If you are talking about Texas, do you happen to know the name of the DPS attorney dealing with your file? Have you tried this at the J.P. Court level yet? How old were you at the time of the YCA action?

Sorry for all of the questions.
Chas.

[Blanco]

Don't mind the questions at all. Yes, I am talking about a Texas Concealed carry permit. And yes, I do know the state attorney dealing with this case and have spoken to her on the phone several times. Not really concerned with the JP court. I know the JP's in my county and have spoken to law enforcement officers in my county as well. I even spoke to the Federal Probation office which sent a letter to the state telling them that I had no record and that a certificate to that effect had been issued. I sent her a copy of the certificate. I sent in the paper work with the same documentation that I sent to the S.E.C. when I became a registered investment broker, and the same paper work that I sent to Texas Dept. of Insurance when I got my Insurance license. Both agencies require no felonies and both agencies complied with my request for registration and licensing.

When the state attorney sent my denial letter she attached several case files concerning The 1950 youth correction act. The state lost at JP level, and county level, but the state attorneys for DPS appealed in all cases until they got to the Appellate court. Split decisions and the DPS won. 4 different cases. I know the rules for concealed carry state that you may request a hearing at the JP level, but that is a joke. What a JP decides is irrelevent considering that the state has no intention of allowing a JP to make the final decision.

For a little history on YCA 1950, established to keep youths away from adult offenders to keep down recidivism rate. The law was repealed in 1984. I was 21 at the time of arrest and 22 when the case was finalized. Youth correction applied to those from the ages of 18 to 22. Repeat offenders under the YCA had to be recertified as adults to receive adult sentences, although many YCA youths had both adult and youth convictions concurrently.

Prior to applying for permit I went to Austin and had my criminal background checked, received a certificate stating NO CRIMINAL history found. None at federal level either. Ironically, my lawyer tells me that had I lied on the application I would have my carry license today. But the application said that disclosure was mandatory, so I complied and here I am. Sorry to be so long winded but I really think I am in the right and have been throwing money at this right and left.

[melkor41]

The only thing I could suggest is perhaps get a utah or florda CHL?

But i think the whole situation is stupid over something that happened over 34 years ago. IMO

[Blanco]

What good does it do me to get a Utah or Florida chl.? I live in Texas. Is there something I am missing? How would I do that if I am not a resident of one of those states and would Texas law enforcement recognize someone whose residence is Texas but carries a chl from another state?
Also rereading my post it might seem that I have claimed to know too many people like the sheriff, the mayor, the JP, the county judge but the fact is, I live in a county with only two towns, neither of which is over 1500 residents and there are only a little over 7,000 in the whole county. This is a small rural county and every business owner just about knows every other business owner. When I read that this was going to be heard in a JP court and then a county court I had no concerns. It was only when I learned that the state does not leave the decision at the county level that I began to be concerned about the money and time away from work to fight this and the resources to take this to the court where it will finally end up. I thank all of you for your comments.

[KC5AV]

You can get a license from Utah or Florida as a non-resident, and carry in Texas based on reciprocity between the states.

[Blanco]

I noticed you are a senior member on this forum so I have a coupla questions for you. Are you telling me that I can request a chl from a state that I do not live in and that they will issue to me even thou I am not a resident? What happens when I go to purchase a gun and they look at my out of state chl and my instate drivers license? I know that you cannot sell a gun unless the applicant lives in your state or a contiguous state such as OKLA, NM, ARK, LA. How does that work? And if you get stopped on a routine traffic stop and the cop asks for drivers license and you show him out of state CHL and instate license what happens then? Last question, if, and I know this is extremely low odds, if you have to use your carry weapon what would the cops say when you tell them you don't have a Texas CHL but you are a texas resident? Seems like a lotta legal ramifications?

[Mike1951]

I noticed you are a senior member on this forum so I have a coupla questions for you. Are you telling me that I can request a chl from a state that I do not live in and that they will issue to me even thou I am not a resident? Yes

What happens when I go to purchase a gun and they look at my out of state chl and my instate drivers license? They will run the NICS check since the out of state license doesn't qualify for bypassing NICS.

I know that you cannot sell a gun unless the applicant lives in your state or a contiguous state such as OKLA, NM, ARK, LA. How does that work?Your drivers license establishes residency, not your out of state license, which should also display your current Texas address.

And if you get stopped on a routine traffic stop and the cop asks for drivers license and you show him out of state CHL and instate license what happens then? Last question, if, and I know this is extremely low odds, if you have to use your carry weapon what would the cops say when you tell them you don't have a Texas CHL but you are a texas resident? Seems like a lotta legal ramifications?The only difference I am aware of is the out of state license doesn't provide immunity in school gun-free zones. This is just something to be aware of. Otherwise, carrying with a valid non-resident license from another state that has reciprocity with Texas is the same as having a Texas CHL.

Also, you can pick up coverage for a few states where Texas isn't valid.

[Keith B]

Otherwise, carrying with a valid non-resident license from another state that has reciprocity with Texas is the same as having a Texas CHL. [/color]

Also, you can pick up coverage for a few states where Texas isn't valid.[/quote]

This is not 100% correct. There are some states that do not recognize non-resident permits even though they have reciprocity with that state. An example is Colorado recognizes the Florida CWP if you are a resident of that state, but NOT a non-resident permit from Florida.

[Mike1951]

I stand corrected by the distinguished gentleman from Plano.

Thank you, suh!

[boomerang]

What happens when I go to purchase a gun and they look at my out of state chl and my instate drivers license?

The dealer has to do a NICS check.

And if you get stopped on a routine traffic stop and the cop asks for drivers license and you show him out of state CHL and instate license what happens then?

You don't need a CHL to carry a handgun in your car in Texas.

[LarryH]

Further, because your CHL will not be from Texas, the Texas requirement for you to show your CHL as well as your DL does not apply. It is also not likely that state will have a requirement to display (you'll need to check), so that whole scenario should not be a worry for you.