Help me learn...point out my mistakes in a CHL situation.

[tehlump]

I'm going to try and make this as clear and precise as possible. Please help me to learn from my mistakes.

Thursday night- 10pm

My sister calls crying. She says that my nephew has had a fight with my cousin and that he needs to come home. Oh yeah, my nephew had gone to the rodeo in Houston with my cousin. My sister lives at least 5-6 hours away so she called me because I live in Huntsville and can make it to the Rodeo at that time of night in a little over an hour.

So...

I get dressed, grab my carry pistol, an extra mag and my streamlight stinger and head out the door. When I am in my pickup I carry my pistol stuck in between the drivers seat and the middle. The holster wedges in pretty firmly.

Ok, so on the way down my road, (rural road, no street lights, all houses on at least 1 acre) I'm thinking about the fastest way to the astrodome area...it is dark, obviously! and slightly foggy as I drop down into an area where a creek passes under the road. This is a section of road where there are fewer houses, but I know many of my neighbors. The closest house is probably 75-100 yards away directly perpendicular to the road and where my vehicle is.

At this point I notice a man laying face down in the ditch on my left. My first thought is that he has been hit by a car or is otherwise hurt.

I stop my pickup and quickly back up until I am directly next to him. I grab my streamlight, light him up and say "Hey! Are you OK?"

He jumps up, runs away from me but crosses the road from right to left. I follow him with my light and as I am panning across the road I notice two more men attempting to hide behind a tree in the ditch to my right.

Feeling funny, I reach back into my pickup and draw my pistol and walk out from around my pickup (dumb) and say in a loud voice, "Who are you and what are you doing!" I kept my pistol by my right side and kept the light on the two behind the tree. The third guy (the one in the ditch) has run off down the road.

They came out from behind the tree with their hands plainly visible, they began talking then and said that they lived on my road and they were just playing around. I recognized them at this point. I don't know them personally but I have seen them in their yard and knew which house the lived at.

Now I was just angry at the stupidity in what they were doing and how it could be misconstrued. I told them they were stupid for playing around in the dark like that and that they needed to go home. I would estimate their age at approximately 16-18. They were not little kids. Apparently the one laying in the ditch was the brother of one of the two hiding behind the tree. When he heard us talking, he came back but the brother I was talking to told him to shut up and stop where he was.

I think that the brother in the ditch was drunk, and the boy I was talking to saw my pistol and knew the situation was shaky.

After me asking them to go home, I got in my pickup and left. I didn't call the police, mainly because I was in an awful hurry to make it to Houston to pick up my nephew.

So...

Mistakes:

1)lost track of man running away from me when I saw the two men behind the tree.

2)stepping in front of my pickup to be lit up from my headlights

3)the headlights made my pistol very visible

4)no cover from my pickup

I don't feel wrong for unholstering my pistol but I'm concerned now thinking back. If I were concerned enough to draw a pistol, why would I not have it at least in the ready postion? Why would I lose track of the man running away, and then blind myself to his return by stepping into the light of my headlights? (he ran away from my pickup)

Should I have called the police to report the situation? I called my wife afterward to let her know that the cops may be showing up on a report of a man with a gun and to let them know what happened and why I left.

Oh boy, it's never easy in real life is it?

[Paladin]

The main thought I had was to wear the gun. That way it comes with you automatically when you get out of your truck, and you may not have felt like you needed to draw it.

If you felt you were in an ambush spot, it's best to get out of there.

Sounds like you already thought thru everything else. Teenagers do stupid/weird things.

[tehlump]

The main thought I had was to wear the gun. That way it comes with you automatically when you get out of your truck, and you may not have felt like you needed to draw it.

If you felt you were in an ambush spot, it's best to get out of there.

Sounds like you already thought thru everything else. Teenagers do stupid/weird things.

I honestly meant to add that to my list of mistakes. Had I been wearing the pistol in all likelyhood I wouldn't have drawn. But if that were the case, was I wrong for having the pistol out in the first place? Meaning this; did I violate the law in drawing my pistol? I can tell you that at that time I felt justified, but sitting in the comfort of my chair I have doubts, but that might be due to feelings of guilt because I did stupid stuff just like those kids did. Then again, maybe this is best chalked up as a learning experience for all parties involved!

[ghentry]

Once I saw the guy run away, I would think I was being set up, ie. ambush. I would think getting in the truck and leaving quickly would be more prudent than admonishing an unknown number of possible assailants.

[Paladin]

Apparently the only time a CHL is supposed to show their gun under Texas law is when when you're actually legal to use deadly force. There were some cases about this posted a while back. A search should turn them up.

[Kalrog]

First thing - thanks for sharing.

Second thing - congratulations for wanting and being WILLING to learn from what has happened to you.

Third - I probably would have gotten back in the vehicle and driven off as soon as I got an idea that it was not a "person in need" situation.

[gigag04]

I'm not the biggest fan of the what-if game, but maybe this will help to answer your questions and serve to analyze your reaction.

Also, let me preface this with that fact that I have not had to draw down on anyone yet, and I hope I never do.

You came out with a pistol clearly visible, if I was horseplaying with my younger cousins late at night (not wise, but legal nonetheless) and I was carrying and some stranger jumped out of his pickup truck with a gun in his hand, it wouldnt be pretty. I would draw you would bring yours up and one of us would get shot (at).

It is not your responisibilty to investigate suspicious activity, especially when you could've just kept driving and run no risk to yourself.

I definately understand the part of us that wants to be a super hero and prevent a crime, but the idea of stopping, getting out of your truck, and exposing yourself to 3+ shady characters does not seem like a wise course of action.

Next time it would probably be better to keep driving and call the cops, who have backup and body armor.

+1 on thanks for sharing, its good to consider these things.

-nick

[Kalrog]

giggag - that is probably the safest thing to do. But for myself, I didn't see this as a "stop a crime" situation at first... at least not as portrayed here. I saw it as a "help an injured person" stop. Depending on the crime, I may or may not stop and try to put an end to it, but I will almost always stop and render aid to an injured person if I can. I know this makes me vulnerable to "set up" situations where someone is faking an injury, but that is something that I am willing to face in order to help those who truly need it.

[nemesis]

At this point I notice a man laying face down in the ditch on my left. My first thought is that he has been hit by a car or is otherwise hurt.

I stop my pickup and quickly back up until I am directly next to him. I grab my streamlight, light him up and say "Hey! Are you OK?"

He jumps up, runs away from me but crosses the road from right to left. I follow him with my light and as I am panning across the road I notice two more men attempting to hide behind a tree in the ditch to my right.

Feeling funny, I reach back into my pickup and draw my pistol and walk out from around my pickup (dumb) and say in a loud voice, "Who are you and what are you doing!"

It has been left unsaid but somewhere in this story you left exited your vehicle and stepped outside when you had no idea whatsoever what was happening or how many opponents you faced.

There could have been 100 guys out there armed with baseball bats but you never gave it a thought because you focused only on what you saw.

It seems there was only 1 decoy but it could have been 3.

[tehlump]

OK, let me try to externalize my thought process that happened that night:

1)see the guy in the ditch

(something is wrong, is he hurt?)

2)light him up, he runs. From the cab of my pickup I followed him with the light.
I think that at that instant I began opening the cab door to see the situation more clearly

(why is he running? *protection mode kicked in*)

3)as I'm stepping out of the pickup I notice the 2 other guys hiding behind the tree

I have no idea what I was thinking...

4)draw pistol, walk around the open door, leaving pickup running in the middle of the road. I then walked to the front of the pickup without thinking of the tactical disadvantage I was placing myself in.

*A moment of clarification is needed here. I am not a 'tactical' individual. I own no fancy black rifles (though one would be fun!). I don't own any tactical clothing and I don't run through 'what if' scenarios constantly through my head. I'm just a regular guy who got his CHL due to the birth of my son and the realization that I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't do everything in my power to protect my family both at home and in public. I practice shooting when I can as my time and budget allows, but I am only able to make it to the range about 1 time a month. I guess I wanted to interrupt this post briefly to state that I'm not one of those crazy people who 'dream' about drawing down on someone.

I have read all of the responses. However I don't think that I could ever live with myself if I saw criminal behavior happening in my neighborhood and I didn't intervene to the best of my ability. I live on a very secluded road within 1/10 of a mile from the dead end. There are virtually no vehicles that travel it and most of the ones that do I recognize by sight. I almost feel like my home boundries extend down the length of my road (yes I know that legally that has no legs) and therefore maybe that helped prompt my feelings of 'WTH is going on here!' I guess that it all boils down to wanting my neighbors to look after me the same way. If my neighbor saw the same situation occurring in my yard, I would expect some kind of response.

Maybe that response should have been calling the sheriff (I'm outside city limits) but then again isn't the feeling of self-reliance, self-dependance and responsibility to something other than myself one of the contributing factors to obtaining a CHL in the first place?

I welcome all opinions and please don't think that I'm trying to put anyone down with these statements...I'm trying to learn from my experience and hopefully by posting it, help others by proxy.

Edited to add that I'm 29, still youthful to some eyes, maybe part of my response was rooted in still being at least partially filled with piss and vinegar?!

[Paladin]

I'm trying to learn from my experience

Experience is how most of us learn (myself included). Experience can be a hard teacher... thanks for posting your experience. I've certainly never been in that situation before, and calmly thinking through it is good preparation for future situations.

[ghentry]

I'm just a regular guy who got his CHL due to the birth of my son and the realization that I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't do everything in my power to protect my family both at home and in public. [snip]


However I don't think that I could ever live with myself if I saw criminal behavior happening in my neighborhood and I didn't intervene to the best of my ability.

I think most of us would agree that there are times to intervene if you see criminal behavior, but IMHO you have a higher responsibility to make it home to your wife and son. I would leave all but the most life threatening situations to the police.

I think you did the right thing by checking on the guy. Once you knew he was alright and you might be in danger, I think it was time to get out of dodge. I understand you wanting to protect your neighborhood, but at what risk to yourself?

Also, another thought is how they could have been the ones calling the Sheriff's department and claiming how you threatened them with a gun. 3 or 4 of their statements against your 1 might make for a long night.

[gigag04]

Also, another thought is how they could have been the ones calling the Sheriff's department and claiming how you threatened them with a gun. 3 or 4 of their statements against your 1 might make for a long night.

+1 - we were warned against this in our class.

A story was told of some guys who approached a CHL holder and asked for money. CHL holder pulled back his jacked revealing a OWB 1911 pistol and said sorry guys no money here. They took off.

He could've been in big doo doo if they had called the cops. It was IFC and assualt w/ a deadly weapon.

Until we get OC, keep it hidden.

-nick

[txinvestigator]

My $.02.

Nice enough for you to be willing to help a person who you thought was injured. WHen he ran away from you and you saw two others hiding, it was time to retreat and call 911, be a good witness.

Unless you are a LEO, you had no business putting yourself in that situation.

No offense meant, but I am a former cop with training and experince in handling these situations, and I would have been a witness and not involved.

[Geopagus]

I would also say that while you we're trying to do the right thing and help your fellow man, your actions could have cost you dearly. Once you saw the individual get up and run, your best move would have been to get out of there. You should've never exited the relative safety of your running vehicle to investigate. Thats a part of what LEO's are for. If you still felt something was seriously amiss, a call to 911 or the Sheriff's Department would have been in order. Thanks for sharing your experience.