So, anybody else CCW a mousegun?

[kw5kw]

I'd rather have a good knife. A 22lr is a better round than a 25.

You really gonna bring a knife to a gunfight?

Of course not. If I know there's going to be a gunfight, I'll stay home. Meanwhile, I'm going to be carrying a 45 and a pocket knife.

And, just where is your .357?

[The Annoyed Man]

While I don't own a mouser, anyone carrying a mouse gun on their person and knows how to use to use it, is better armed than 99% of the public.

Zackly!

[stroo]

Statistically speaking most of us (50-75%) have no need to carry because we will never be attacked particularly if you live and work in relatively safe neighborhoods, have a safe lifestyle and give off the appearance of alertness. Given that most people are more than adequately armed with a mousegun.

Again statistically speaking, most of attacks (75-90%+) are stopped either by presenting a gun or firing a gun. Again a mousegun is sufficient for this purpose assuming the BG can actually see the mousegun when it is presented.

The very few attackers who do not stop when actually shot once (less than 5 % and probably less than 1%) tend to only stop when they bleed out or are hit in the CNS. To achieve that shot placement is far more important than caliber. Having said that higher calibers make bigger holes and therefore are better if you have to face this kind of attacker.

Given all this the most important things for me to consider in a self defense weapon are: 1. Will I carry it; and 2. Can I shoot it accurately.

The first is a question of lifestyle. The second is a question of getting a gun the fits you and practise. Maybe this leads you to a mousegun, maybe to .50 Desert Eagle. Personally, my primary carry is a Hipower because I shoot it better than anything else I have tried and I carry as a bug either a Colt Vest Pocket .25 or a KT P-11. Which one of those I carry depends on the size of my pockets. I also practice not only drawing my primary but also my pocket mouseguns.

[fm2]

Good discussion point have been made so far.

"Carrying" a gun is only a part of the self defense equation. The gun isn't a talisman, and shouldn't be carried/employed as such. I assume we want to be effective, should we need to defend ourselves & loved ones. Employing a tool effectively, if/when needed, is the most important part of overcoming the initiative deficit of a criminal assault.

How tools are concealed play a significant role in getting them into action. So it is very important to know
the strengths & weaknesses of our carry methods. We may be able to compensate for the weaknesses with our other abilities & attributes, but that may be negated by our company, ie. small child in your care when the balloon goes up. We might also weaken the strengths. So, we have to work and test objectively in context to learn to make informed decisions. Because we have to learn implicitly this is not merely a singular shooting match.

mr.72, Dan20703, stroo, etc... What are your draw times of the smaller guns you carry vs. the other carry gun(s) you may carry? What draw time is your goal? I did a quickdraw test just now & mousegun was in the 2.5-3.5 second range vs. the J-frame was 1.2-2 second range. I find it significant that the difference in the slowest times is 1.5 seconds.

[stroo]

I generally carry my Hipower in a Hume JIT holster and my mouse guns either in a Nemesis or pocket holster I made myself. I haven't ever timed my draw so I can't give you any hard facts. But my feeling is that I am 50-100% slower drawing out of the pocket than out of the JIT. However a lot of the speed out of the pocket depends on the size of the pocket; bigger pocket translates into faster draw. The other side of pocket carry is that you can have your hand on your gun in your pocket ready to go where as it is hard to casually grab your gun at the 3 or 4 o'clock OWB position. If you factor in having your hand on the gun in the pocket versus having to throw up the cover garment and put your hand on the gun with the JIT, then the draw times for the pocket carry become only slightly slower than for the JIT and maybe even.

[Preacherman]

Thanks to Surveyer for the link to mouseguns.com!

Marshall (aka Preacherman)

I carry a PF9 on weekdays, and a p3at on Sundays.

[mr surveyor]

Welcome to Texas Preacherman


surv

[The Annoyed Man]

There is a decent article in the June 2008 issue of American Rifleman comparing the carrying of a full size 1911 Springfield to a Keltec P3AT. The author makes the same point that I've made above - that he carries the 1911 when dressed casually because it is easily concealable in that situation, and the Keltec when he has to wear a suit because it conceals better in that situation. He also says that he makes the effort be proficient with both pistols, and he notes that the primary difference between deploying the 1911 versus the Keltec is that, when deploying the Keltec, he sweeps his thumb across a non-existent safety lever.

It is an absolutely cogent argument that, once the gun is deployed, you have greater firepower, and probably greater accuracy, with the 1911, and that it is therefore more prudent to carry it (or some other larger capacity "not mousegun") whenever possible. But it is an equally cogent argument that life does not always present us with the opportunity to carry whatever we want, if we also want to earn a living at our chosen trade; and that we need to have viable alternatives for those occasions when a larger pistol simply isn't practical.

[dac1842]

I dont carry anything less than 9mm. I know a 22 or 25 will kill you just as dead. But just personal preference. The H & K P7 is a great conceal carry gun and being a big guy 6'5 and 290 lbs I have little problems concealing it. Normally I will carry his big brother, the USP Compact .40, but there are days the Glock 23 or the Sig Pro gets the nod.

[mr.72]

there are lots of 9mms and even some .40s and .45s in sub-compact "pocket" sizes.

I am beginning to think when many people say "mouse gun" they are talking about .32 cal and smaller calibres.

[mr surveyor]

there are lots of 9mms and even some .40s and .45s in sub-compact "pocket" sizes.

I am beginning to think when many people say "mouse gun" they are talking about .32 cal and smaller calibres.

yes, most of the time a mousegun is of the smaller caliber variety. Generally speaking, mouseguns range in size from the super-mini NAA .22 short revolver, up to, and slightly larger than the Kel-Tec P3AT or Ruger LCP in .380 cal. Generally speaking, I don't think most folks consider compact, or even sub-compact higher caliber handguns to be mouseguns. It's not necessarily a "caliber war", but a physical size issue. There is a single shot .45 cal "belly gun" on the market (the Defender?) that would probably qualify as a mousegun, as are a very few of the derringer style guns. But, even most of the derringer style guns are larger and much heavier than most mouseguns. Many of the derringers fit more into the "ratgun" category, as do the Sig 232 and Bersa .380.

surv

[shootthesheet]

I have a P3AT that I got as a BUG. I carry it when I can't anything else. I have also found it to be my "carry around the house gun". I would want only to trust it until I can get to a better gun but, I think it is "good enough" for occasional carry. I wouldn't personally trust anything smaller than a .380 and call those "mouse guns". I would rather have a .45 auto but I have yet to find one that I can stick in the waistband of my underpants and go downstairs for a glass of water at 3 AM.

[mr surveyor]

I have a P3AT that I got as a BUG. I carry it when I can't anything else. I have also found it to be my "carry around the house gun". I would want only to trust it until I can get to a better gun but, I think it is "good enough" for occasional carry. I wouldn't personally trust anything smaller than a .380 and call those "mouse guns". I would rather have a .45 auto but I have yet to find one that I can stick in the waistband of my underpants and go downstairs for a glass of water at 3 AM.

Too Much Information

[BambooShoots]

The Glock 26 is about as small as I want to go.

I use it to carry into nonpermissive enviroments that aren' t secured by metal detectors and I'm not wanded/patted down.

[DoubleJ]

I would rather have a .45 auto but I have yet to find one that I can stick in the waistband of my underpants and go downstairs for a glass of water at 3 AM.

you don't have 3 more stashed throughout the house and a ScatterGun w/SureFire attached next to yer bed for the trip down????


not very TactiCool [abbreviated profanity deleted] you!




jk,btw