Question about daughter carrying in car.

[Rough_Ashlar]

I'm not looking for a urinary olympiad here. I'm just trying to prevent the erroneous impression that TX law says it's fine for kids of any age to possess firearms under any circumstances. That simply isn't true.

thats the nicest way i have EVER seen that put

[seamusTX]

I have no further comment. I have said everything that I have to say about this topic.

- Jim

[mr.72]

I have no further comment. I have said everything that I have to say about this topic.

- Jim

The wise man's quandary strikes again!

:)

[jeeperbryan]

who cares. the 2nd amendment says "people". not "people over the age of 21".

or just give her a shotgun and be done with it.

[rm9792]

but what about having one that is registered to me in her possession in her vehicle?

How do you register a gun in Texas? I know of no such thing.

Well I don't pretend to know the process, but meaning that I am the one who purchased the gun. If for some reason she got pulled over or worse yet she actually had to shoot someone and the serial number was "run" would the gun not show up as me as the owner or does no such database exist?

No such database exists. The only place that that gun is assigned to you is collecting dust on a form in a file cabinet at the FFL. Only way it comes up if "run" is if it is reported stolen.

[pt145ss]

I'm not looking for a urinary olympiad here. I'm just trying to prevent the erroneous impression that TX law says it's fine for kids of any age to possess firearms under any circumstances. That simply isn't true.

You are correct it is not fine for kids to possess a firearm under ANY circumstance. It is not fine for a kid to posses a firearm when the firearm is used in an unlawful manner. But wait a minute…is that not true for adults as well? So is the limitation based on age? Or is it based on the fact that it was used in an unlawful manner? I believe the latter.

The law does not specify a minimum age at which a minor is in illegal possession of a firearm even if the use of that firearm is for lawful purposes.

[DParker]

I'm not looking for a urinary olympiad here. I'm just trying to prevent the erroneous impression that TX law says it's fine for kids of any age to possess firearms under any circumstances. That simply isn't true.

You are correct it is not fine for kids to possess a firearm under ANY circumstance. It is not fine for a kid to posses a firearm when the firearm is used in an unlawful manner. But wait a minute…is that not true for adults as well? So is the limitation based on age? Or is it based on the fact that it was used in an unlawful manner? I believe the latter.

Really? So even though I've posted the full text of the statute that prohibits furnishing a loaded firearm to an unsupervised minor (person under 17 years of age), you don't think there's any age restriction of any sort?

The law does not specify a minimum age at which a minor is in illegal possession of a firearm even if the use of that firearm is for lawful purposes.

Then you're going to have a very difficult time explaining the intent of 46.13, at a minimum. If it is illegal to sell a gun to a minor, and illegal to give him a loaded one to possess while unsupervised...

C'mon. This really isn't that difficult to piece together, is it?

[Mike1951]

Well I don't pretend to know the process, but meaning that I am the one who purchased the gun. If for some reason she got pulled over or worse yet she actually had to shoot someone and the serial number was "run" would the gun not show up as me as the owner or does no such database exist?

Tracing a gun to its first purchaser is so involved as to not be used without good reason.

My understanding of the process is this:

Authorities contact the manufacturer to see which distributor bought the gun when new.

Authorities contact the distributor to see which dealer bought the gun.

Authorities must then physically visit the dealer to inspect his records to learn which customer bought the gun originally.

Authorties contact that customer to see if he still owns the gun. If not, he does some explaining to convince the authorities that he got rid of it.

Now from here, all bets are off.

Even if 4473's are completed later on, perhaps when another dealer resells it as used, the distribution chain has been broken.

And since person to person sales are legal without paperwork, in many cases, tracking one is completely impossible.

[pt145ss]

I agree with Jim, and I do not understand the disconnect.

The age requirement in 46.13 only determines the culpability of the person who made the firearm accessible to someone who uses the firearm in an unlawful manner. This does not provide an age limitation of a minor in possession of a firearm for lawful purposes.

If someone breaks into the house and my ten year old gets my firearm and shoots the BG. We have a minor in possession for lawful purposes and therefore no culpability on my part.

If my ten year old gets my gun and uses in an unlawful manner i.e. to rob or murder someone, then I am culpable for allowing him access. Given the same scenario, if my son were 18, then I am not culpable for allowing access to the firearm.

[boomerang]

Some of you people really must love to argue.

I have a 19yo daughter that wants to carry a gun in her car.

[pt145ss]

Really? So even though I've posted the full text of the statute that prohibits furnishing a loaded firearm to an unsupervised minor (person under 17 years of age), you don't think there's any age restriction of any sort?

No…I do not think so. The possession of the firearm is not limited by age and the minor has not committed a criminal offense by simply being in possession of a loaded firearm. The person giving the minor access to a loaded firearm my be culpable under certain circumstances and may have committed an offense…but the minor has not.

Then you're going to have a very difficult time explaining the intent of 46.13, at a minimum. If it is illegal to sell a gun to a minor, and illegal to give him a loaded one to possess while unsupervised...

C'mon. This really isn't that difficult to piece together, is it?

Obviously it must be difficult because I just can’t come to the same conclusion that you come to. First, there may very well be an age limitation on selling a firearm to a minor…but selling and possessing are two different things aren’t they? Second, the intent of this law is so that the state can hold someone culpable for allowing a minor to gain possession of a loaded firearm that is then used for unlawful purposes. The age of 17 is put in there as a guide to determine under what circumstances the owner is culpable for allowing access to the firearm.

Show me a TX statute, that says “A minor of X age or less commits an offense by being in possession of a firearm whether the firearm is used for lawful purposes or not.� If you can show me something like that…then I would agree that there is an age limitation on “possession.�

Under 46.13…the minor has not committed and offense.

[Mike from Texas]

Some of you people really must love to argue.

I have a 19yo daughter that wants to carry a gun in her car.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You beat me to it. Now I'm more confused than ever.
I just asked a simple question.......or at least I thought. Thanks to those that gave constructive input.

[KC5AV]

Your daughter can legally possess the handgun. She just can't purchase one (retail).

[flb_78]

Your daughter can legally possess the handgun. She just can't purchase one (retail).

+1

She is legal to car carry a gun in the State of Texas.

[CleverNickname]

This was discussed thoroughly last year: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 34&p=88581

There is no age restriction. A 16-year-old licensed driver can legally carry in a vehicle. Police officials sometimes complain about this, and it's one of the reasons for our D grade from the Bradys.

Someone under 18 carrying a handgun is illegal as per 18 USC 922(x), with a few exceptions.

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;
(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;
(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or
(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.
(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile� means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
(6)
(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant’s parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.
(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).
(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.