Anyone else had fingerprints denied?

[Brad Johnson]

Well, after the extended wait and second set of prints the license showed up in the mail yesterday. I didn't realize how radically my appearance has changed since last September when I took the class (I've lost 30 pounds, a lot of it in my neck and face). It almost doesn't look like me anymore! Not gonna worry about it though.

Brad

[mec]

One version: " the FBI keeps your prints on file until you are 99 years old."

The other version: " The FBI doesn't keep your prints on file at all. That's why they demand a new card every time."

The real explaination may be that they are cross checking the prints to make sure you havent' been replaced by one of the minions of Osama bin Ladin or by an alien xenomorph from beta cigni.

[kegster]

DPS sent a letter and both cards and two new cards to have new prints taken.

Says something that they weren't 'rolled' properly.

The place where we took our CHL class says it happens and to come back in to have her reprinted.

Hope it doesn't delay the process too long.

Keg

[cxm]

Rejected finger prints are a curious thing...

I have had several student's finger prints returned. One older woman had tough prints to roll... but I think I got a good set.... they wre rejected none-the-less. When the DPS returned the first set of cards, I asked here to get her local Police Dept to roll the next set... and paid the fee for her. The detective who rolled her prints said he could not see anything wrong with the first set...

The second set was rejected too... when I looked at them I didn't think they were as good quality as the first set... so we got another set rolled by the police... after which I called the DPS and talked to the person who works finger prints... who told me the print WOULD be accepted the third time... which they were.

Now the curious thing about prints to me is the fact rejections seem to come in flocks... I will have several in one class rejected and then none for quite a while... no logic at all. This seems to support what a DPS Trooper told me... that when they are behind in processing they just reject finger priints to stop the clock...

I have also concluded that attaching a note explaining the prints on the cards are the best possible and the reason for that statement along with second set of cards is worthwhile when someone has hard to roll prints.

FWIW

Chuck

[Charles L. Cotton]

This seems to support what a DPS Trooper told me... that when they are behind in processing they just reject finger priints to stop the clock...
Chuck

I've have been convinced of this for some time. The former excuse was simply, "we're running a little behind now" but apparently enough people reminded them the statute doesn't allow for "running a little behind." I wish people would keep the “bad� print cards, we may be able to use them in 2007.

Regards,
Chas.

[mec]

"This seems to support what a DPS Trooper told me... that when they are behind in processing they just reject finger priints to stop the clock...
Chuck"

We had a woman who took her card in on a trip to Austin. The Trooper who was going to print her again looked at the rejected set and signed off on them. He said that they do this, just as you said, to buy more time.

this happened early in the program and, at that time, submitting a new card generated the license by return mail. Later on, I had an applicant that had to wait a full extra 60 days before the license came. Maybe DPS wont be so far behind or so miserably overworked now that the automobile carry bill has passed. There should be nearly as many applicants or recertifications.

[cxm]

I'm sure I can get rejected cards from several students... and I will make a point to save future "rejects."

There also seems to be "some" (but I don't have enough data to be very reliable) corelation between Friday and cards being returned. Each letter returning cards my students have received has been marked as a Friday.... one student speculated the processors were cleaning their desks off... perhaps in response to pressure to meet the statutory deadline.

For one, I would like to see the law amended to require the DPS to refund the entire processing fee if the time limit is not met. (I urge my students to send applications by certified mail with return receipt so they can prove delivery.)

Also would be nice to see the law amended to require the DPS to post their processing statistics on the DPS web site... sort of like credit report... how many completed in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, how many 1-30 days late, 31-60 days late etc.

FWIW

Chuck

This seems to support what a DPS Trooper told me... that when they are behind in processing they just reject finger priints to stop the clock...
Chuck

I've have been convinced of this for some time. The former excuse was simply, "we're running a little behind now" but apparently enough people reminded them the statute doesn't allow for "running a little behind." I wish people would keep the “bad� print cards, we may be able to use them in 2007.

Regards,
Chas.

[stevie_d_64]

This seems to support what a DPS Trooper told me... that when they are behind in processing they just reject finger priints to stop the clock...
Chuck

I've have been convinced of this for some time. The former excuse was simply, "we're running a little behind now" but apparently enough people reminded them the statute doesn't allow for "running a little behind." I wish people would keep the “bad� print cards, we may be able to use them in 2007.

Regards,
Chas.

Wonder when a State Legistlator is going to call the DPS onto the carpet for this deficiency...

I'm not going to hold my breath...

Because DPS is costing us (citizens) "more" money to have this process completed, than if they would just knuckle down and do what is required to actually get it done, on time, the first time...

But then again when is any government system truely ever held accountable for its deficiencies...

If I make a mistake, and or do my job in an ineffeicient manner...And somebody gets hurt or killed...I go to prison, and get fined...My life will be screwed from then on out...

I think it'd be fair to fix the same, potential jeopardy to systems like this...

But then again...We're just talking about little pieces of plastic that have markings on them that tell someone else its ok that we do this simple thing...

echhhh...

[HankB]

First time I applied for a CHL, my prints were taken by a Pflugerville cop. I hand-carried my packet down to DPS in Austin (one advantage of living in Moscow on the Colorado) and the nice ladies there cooed "Ooooh, these won't do at all" and redid my prints, and 56 days later I got my CHL. (As as aside . . . while they're rolling ink and taking my prints, numerous people walked by and STARED at me. I felt GUILTY . . . I don't know what I did, but for sure, I NEVER want to be in a position where I'm getting printed involuntarily!)

When it came time for renewal, my prints were done by a retired Austin PD sergeant . . . at DPS, same thing, they redid my prints, this time with an electronic scanner. 28 days until my renewal arrived.

So . . . if getting good prints is a hit-or-miss process when trained and certified LEOs are using fingerprint ink and a fingerprint card with a co-operative subject, how in blue blazes do they get validprints from crime scenes? If I'm ever on a jury where fingerprint evidence figures prominently, well, the prosecutor is going to have to be VERY convincing.

[mec]

A lot of times a police department special investigator will appear at trial to explain why they didn't get any crime scene prints to connect the defendent with the specific incident. Part of the presentation is how seldom finger prints play any roll in solving a crime.

[90north]

Lifting latent impressions from a crime scene, or items from a crime scene is a totally different proceedure than doing inked impressions on a card. Many departments don't use ink for fingerprint cards anymore. Many cards are scanned by the AFIS program and have different requirements than those reviewed by a human being.

[cxm]

In talking to several LE types, I was told prints from prisoners are never sent back.... of course they usually dont have any way to print them a second time.

OTOH, the same LE commented application prints are often sent back... basically said poor quality prints can usually be classified, but it takes a lot more time and they just don't bother with applicants.

Looking at some to the prints LE types have done on my students I'm amazed any prints get classified.

FWIW

Chuck

First time I applied for a CHL, my prints were taken by a Pflugerville cop. I hand-carried my packet down to DPS in Austin (one advantage of living in Moscow on the Colorado) and the nice ladies there cooed "Ooooh, these won't do at all" and redid my prints, and 56 days later I got my CHL. (As as aside . . . while they're rolling ink and taking my prints, numerous people walked by and STARED at me. I felt GUILTY . . . I don't know what I did, but for sure, I NEVER want to be in a position where I'm getting printed involuntarily!)

When it came time for renewal, my prints were done by a retired Austin PD sergeant . . . at DPS, same thing, they redid my prints, this time with an electronic scanner. 28 days until my renewal arrived.

So . . . if getting good prints is a hit-or-miss process when trained and certified LEOs are using fingerprint ink and a fingerprint card with a co-operative subject, how in blue blazes do they get validprints from crime scenes? If I'm ever on a jury where fingerprint evidence figures prominently, well, the prosecutor is going to have to be VERY convincing.