What's your favorite semi pocket pistol?

[Xander]

I don't own one, but I've seen lots of reports that indicate quality control is not consistent. Lots of folks report intermittent failures to feed, failures to eject, and even broken parts after very small numbers of rounds fired. For me, that takes the little KelTecs out of the running for life saving equipment. The Ruger LCP and the new Kahr 380 look like much better equipment in the same size / power category.

The reports I've seen on the LCP so far seem to mirror the P3AT reports. Some folks have problems with them, some don't. <Shrug />

[Excaliber]

I don't own one, but I've seen lots of reports that indicate quality control is not consistent. Lots of folks report intermittent failures to feed, failures to eject, and even broken parts after very small numbers of rounds fired. For me, that takes the little KelTecs out of the running for life saving equipment. The Ruger LCP and the new Kahr 380 look like much better equipment in the same size / power category.

The reports I've seen on the LCP so far seem to mirror the P3AT reports. Some folks have problems with them, some don't. <Shrug />

In my experience, smaller guns are often more temperamental than the larger ones.

[KFP]

You may want to consider the Kahr PM9 or PM40, I recently picked one up and think pretty highly of it. The combination of size, weight and power is ideal in my opinion. I also have a P3AT but don't trust it 100% due to FTF issues that I've had with it.

I have heard of a break in period for the PM9 - what has been your experience with it?

I have also heard that it is a very good gun!

I searched around for a while to find one at the right price. In doing so I saved ~$250 compared to a new PM9 with night sights and ended up with a couple of holsters for free. Needless to say mine was already broken in for me and functions perfectly with everything that I've fed it so far. I've been extremely impressed with how accurate it is, especially when compared to how I shoot my P3AT. If price is an issue you may want to search around for a used one, although one of the new Kahr 380 will probably be harder to come by if that's the route that you think you'll take.

[Skiprr]

I'll cast my vote for the Kel-tec P3AT. I have had zero problems with mine and it shoots pretty darn good groups considering its size and you'll be hard pressed to find anything lighter...

I don't own one, but I've seen lots of reports that indicate quality control is not consistent. Lots of folks report intermittent failures to feed, failures to eject, and even broken parts after very small numbers of rounds fired. For me, that takes the little KelTecs out of the running for life saving equipment.

I own a P3AT. Bought it about two years ago. It's made two trips to the manufactuter in Florida. The last trip, they were kind enough to include extra firing pins and firing pin springs, presumably so I could change them myself during an emergency situation when the gun failed to fire.

Two years, and I have fewer than 75 successful rounds down this pistol. The only thing thing I trust it to be is a paper-weight.

I bought the gun new and absorbed about $100 in shipping costs to Coco Beach, so it's an expensive P3AT. I won't sell it because I know it won't function.

Needless to say, I can't recommend the P3AT. And I'll probably never buy another Kel-Tec product.

My mouse gun is a Seecamp 32. My BUG is a Kahr PM9. For regular carry, I like calibers that begin with a "4".

[yerasimos]

I don't own one, but I've seen lots of reports that indicate quality control is not consistent. Lots of folks report intermittent failures to feed, failures to eject, and even broken parts after very small numbers of rounds fired. For me, that takes the little KelTecs out of the running for life saving equipment. The Ruger LCP and the new Kahr 380 look like much better equipment in the same size / power category.

The reports I've seen on the LCP so far seem to mirror the P3AT reports. Some folks have problems with them, some don't. <Shrug />

In my experience, smaller guns are often more temperamental than the larger ones.

For regular carry, I like calibers that begin with a "4".

[Excaliber]

For regular carry, I like calibers that begin with a "4".

For my own personal use, I'll put up with a little inconvenience in favor of effectiveness anytime.

I agree with both Skiprr and yerasimos on this point, and I practice what I preach.

I dislike even talking about small calibers because it strikes me as similar to complaining that a full size umbrella is too inconvenient to carry and going on to discuss whether a 6 inch or an 8 inch umbrella will work better to keep you dry during a downpour. However, I recognize that a small number of folks have unique situations that don't allow larger guns and need to know which of the small ones are better than others, and it's true that some gun is generally better than no gun.

Then again, I just sigh when I see folks choose convenience for its own sake over effectiveness and delude themselves about what little guns in small calibers will do for them if called upon in an emergency situation.

In the final analysis, as I've said before, we all make our decisions and live with the consequences.

[tbranch]

I currently carry an LCP on a daily basis. I have about 500 rounds through it with zero issues. It fires every time. At 30 feet I can keep the shots in an 8-inch circle.

I’ve also owned and carried the P3AT as well. My P3AT was flawless with about 500 rounds on it.

I tend the think the FTEs that plague some people are simply a poor grip on the weapon. I also think you have to remember these are not range guns.

When I hit the range I typically fire the rounds from both magazines (JHPs) and then a couple of magazines of FMJ. Once back at the house, it gets a through cleaning, a proper lubing, and the magazines get reloaded with JHPs.

Tom

[Keith B]

I currently carry an LCP on a daily basis. I have about 500 rounds through it with zero issues. It fires every time. At 30 feet I can keep the shots in an 8-inch circle.

I’ve also owned and carried the P3AT as well. My P3AT was flawless with about 500 rounds on it.

I tend the think the FTEs that plague some people are simply a poor grip on the weapon. I also think you have to remember these are not range guns.

When I hit the range I typically fire the rounds from both magazines (JHPs) and then a couple of magazines of FMJ. Once back at the house, it gets a through cleaning, a proper lubing, and the magazines get reloaded with JHPs.

Tom

I have to agree with Tom on the small pocket pistol FTF/FTE issues. Basically, a semi-automatic pistol feeds and ejects from inertia. Small, light pistols have less mass to the slide and frame, so they tend to have more tendency for recoil. If the frame is not held solidly, then the slide doesn't have anything to work against, and in turn will be more likely to FTF/FTE. Many folks refer to this as 'weak wristing'.

I personally have experienced this when I get tired or just sloppy in my grip while shooting with my PM9 or other small pocket semi-autos. I very almost never get it with my 4 -5 inch larger framed guns, even with the lighter grip.

[boomerang]

I dislike even talking about small calibers because it strikes me as similar to complaining that a full size umbrella is too inconvenient to carry and going on to discuss whether a 6 inch or an 8 inch umbrella will work better to keep you dry during a downpour.

That's an interesting analogy because it's easy to throw a compact umbrella in your laptop bag but it's inconvenient to carry a golf umbrella every day.

I like snubbies for pocket carry. I trust them more than small automatics.

[Excaliber]

I dislike even talking about small calibers because it strikes me as similar to complaining that a full size umbrella is too inconvenient to carry and going on to discuss whether a 6 inch or an 8 inch umbrella will work better to keep you dry during a downpour.

That's an interesting analogy because it's easy to throw a compact umbrella in your laptop bag but it's inconvenient to carry a golf umbrella every day.

I like snubbies for pocket carry. I trust them more than small automatics.

When I mentioned discussing whether a 6 inch or an 8 inch umbrella would better protect one in a downpour, I wasn't referring to length of shaft - I was talking about diameters of the domes.

A snubby .38 is a well proven defensive platform, and works best when you only face one opponent at very close range. The logistics get pretty dicey when two or more attackers are involved, or in an active shooter situation where the ranges may be longer and lots of movement is involved. Autos aren't magic in those situations either, but they give you more sustained fire, quicker reloads, and a longer sight radius when major calibers are used.

The reliability of revolvers is much greater in legend than in fact. The firing and ejection mechanisms are simpler than those in semiautos, but they have critical screws that can loosen and cause malfunctions (e.g. the one that holds the crane in - in police training operations, it wasn't rare to see a cylinder and crane assembly fall on the ground during a reload, or to see an officer who couldn't open the cylinder because the cylinder latch had fallen off during firing). The critical tolerances are also easily knocked out of line - one fall to the ground with impact on the cylinder can make the weapon inoperable until repaired by a gunsmith - a bad thing during a struggle or firefight. Semiautos are much more rugged in these regards, and a quality weapon will cycle and fire easily as reliably as any good revolver. It's no accident that revolvers are not the issued weapon for any major country's military service for use on the battlefield, where operational reliability is essential. It's even hard to find a U.S. police department that uses them these days.

I don't disparage revolvers, which have their place, and someone who is competent with them is a formidable opponent. Confidence in your weapon platform is also a major plus. For my own purposes, I favor semiautos because I like to stack as many of the controllable odds as possible on my side.

[boomerang]

A snubby .38 is a well proven defensive platform, and works best when you only face one opponent at very close range. The logistics get pretty dicey when two or more attackers are involved, or in an active shooter situation where the ranges may be longer and lots of movement is involved.

Compact umbrellas work best when the rain is light and it's not very windy. A golf umbrella is a much better choice for a real downpour or if the wind is gusty or you have other people with you. Many people won't carry a golf umbrella every day but might be willing to throw a compact umbrella in a laptop bag or a purse. Like a pocket pistol, a compact umbrella is a compromise to convenience for people who aren't willing to carry anything bigger. It's not as good as the full size model but it's much better than nothing.

It's no accident that revolvers are not the issued weapon for any major country's military service for use on the battlefield, where operational reliability is essential. It's even hard to find a U.S. police department that uses them these days.

I didn't know the military issued pocket pistols these days.

[Skiprr]

I tend the think the FTEs that plague some people are simply a poor grip on the weapon...

I have to agree with Tom on the small pocket pistol FTF/FTE issues. Basically, a semi-automatic pistol feeds and ejects from inertia. Small, light pistols have less mass to the slide and frame, so they tend to have more tendency for recoil. If the frame is not held solidly, then the slide doesn't have anything to work against, and in turn will be more likely to FTF/FTE.

Since I dissed my P3AT, I just wanted to note that mine has never had a failure to feed or failure to eject. And it's surprisingly accurate for me considering the size, weight and rudimentray sights.

It just fails to fire. Evidently, shooting standard-power ball ammo only, the firing pin reliably breaks after anywhere from a handful to a few dozen rounds. I get nice, light primer dents and no bang. After the second trip back to Kel-Tec, I'd have sorta thought they might replace the gun because there's obviously something odd with the tolerances in the firing pin assemply on this one. But I got the same gun back again, this time thoughtfully accompanied by extra firing pins and springs.

Maybe I could make one of those cigarette lighter things out of it. Oh wait; I don't smoke...

[bryang]

I agree that we should always carry what we feel confident with should we ever get into a bad situation. I have a snubby .38, but I do not carry it often because I don't feel comfortable with only 5 rounds. 90% of the time I carry a Colt .45 ACP IWB. At first I had to make myself carry it because it was a little uncomfortable, but now, I wouldn't be without it and hardly know it's there. The other 10% of the time, if I am out walking my dog, I will carry my LCP in my pocket. It is very concealable and I have 7 rounds to work with. IMHO concerning caliber size, it is bullet placement that matters...practice, practice, practice. The LCP is not for having fun on the range with, it is for...GET OFF OF ME, NOW! I like the little LCP, however, I had to send it to Ruger because I had a few problems with it when I first bought it, but now it never fails to feed or eject...I can trust it.

-geo

[yerasimos]

For the purpose of GET OFF OF ME, NOW!, I would prefer to use the snubby .38 revolver over the LCP, because when things go hands-on, the semi-automatic's slide could be pushed out of battery and/or the magazine could get ejected in rough handling/grappling, leaving you with a capacity of one round until you can obtain a reload or the ejected magazine. The snubby's barrel is fixed, and its cylinder can get temporarily immobilized, but seems more likely to retain whatever capacity it has when subjected to grappling forces. (For the cylinder to lose its live rounds, the cylinder would have to be pushed out from the frame while the cylinder latch is simultaneously disengaged, then the barrel would have to be tipped upward; ejecting a semiautomatic's magazine only requires pushing a button while the stocks/grip is pointing down.)

Aside from this bad-breath range application, semi-automatics look much better than revolvers.

[Excaliber]

Compact umbrellas work best when the rain is light and it's not very windy. A golf umbrella is a much better choice for a real downpour or if the wind is gusty or you have other people with you. Many people won't carry a golf umbrella every day but might be willing to throw a compact umbrella in a laptop bag or a purse. Like a pocket pistol, a compact umbrella is a compromise to convenience for people who aren't willing to carry anything bigger. It's not as good as the full size model but it's much better than nothing.

Point well taken, and I agree. However, if you get caught with the defensive equivalent of a 6 inch diameter umbrella in a golf umbrella size incident, those won't be raindrops you'll be trying to dance between!

[quote"boomerang"]I didn't know the military issued pocket pistols these days.[/quote]

To my knowledge they don't, nor did I say they do. Taken in context, I was addressing the misconception that revolvers are more reliable than semiautos. In fact, revolvers hold up very poorly in harsh battlefield conditions like those in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's why the military issues weapons with the far more durable and reliable semiautomatic action. In clean, well maintained environments where the weapons are not subject to being dropped, struck, clogged with sand or mud, etc. there is little functional difference in reliability between the two action types in service grade weapons. Pocket semiautos are another matter, and are as a class generally less reliable than well made snub nose revolvers. Examples can readily be found in some of the other posts on this topic.

For the purpose of GET OFF OF ME, NOW!, I would prefer to use the snubby .38 revolver over the LCP, because when things go hands-on, the semi-automatic's slide could be pushed out of battery and/or the magazine could get ejected in rough handling/grappling, leaving you with a capacity of one round until you can obtain a reload or the ejected magazine. The snubby's barrel is fixed, and its cylinder can get temporarily immobilized, but seems more likely to retain whatever capacity it has when subjected to grappling forces. (For the cylinder to lose its live rounds, the cylinder would have to be pushed out from the frame while the cylinder latch is simultaneously disengaged, then the barrel would have to be tipped upward; ejecting a semiautomatic's magazine only requires pushing a button while the stocks/grip is pointing down.)

Aside from this bad-breath range application, semi-automatics look much better than revolvers.

Since I dissed my P3AT, I just wanted to note that mine has never had a failure to feed or failure to eject. And it's surprisingly accurate for me considering the size, weight and rudimentray sights.

It just fails to fire. Evidently, shooting standard-power ball ammo only, the firing pin reliably breaks after anywhere from a handful to a few dozen rounds. I get nice, light primer dents and no bang. After the second trip back to Kel-Tec, I'd have sorta thought they might replace the gun because there's obviously something odd with the tolerances in the firing pin assemply on this one. But I got the same gun back again, this time thoughtfully accompanied by extra firing pins and springs.

Sorta like if your car was eating starters, and the dealer addressed the issue by dropping 4 or 5 replacements in your trunk.

There are some things in life whose only purpose is to serve as a warning to others. Your KelTec appears to be one of those.