Approached by suspicious acting strangers last night

[tallmike]

The guys we could see were black, and my FIL is a rich-looking older white guy.

As far as the black or white people comment goes, you picked that out on your own. I did not provide anything other than the facts and details about the situation as I recall. They could have just as easily been Asian, fat, or redheads and I would have put that instead.

Yea, you keep saying that. Eventually you may even believe its true.

[CHLSteve]

The guys we could see were black, and my FIL is a rich-looking older white guy.

As far as the black or white people comment goes, you picked that out on your own. I did not provide anything other than the facts and details about the situation as I recall. They could have just as easily been Asian, fat, or redheads and I would have put that instead.

Yea, you keep saying that. Eventually you may even believe its true.

Someone keeps deleting my posts, so whatever. I guess I can't reply to this garbage comment.

[carlson1]

Feel free to respond without the personal attacks and name calling.

[longhorn_92]

Feel free to respond without the personal attacks and name calling.

[KD5NRH]

Why don't we just implement a rule that from now on everybody who complains about race being mentioned in a description has to use the other end of the range?

[tallmike]

Why don't we just implement a rule that from now on everybody who complains about race being mentioned in a description has to use the other end of the range?

I am not complaining about race as a descriptive fact where it is useful, but to add in the fact that someone is black and his father is an "older rich looking white guy" is a bit overboard.

Who cares if the guys who pulled up for directions are black? What could that possibly add to this story? Then to add that the person they are talking to is an older rich looking white guy is calling out differences that, if Steve is being honest, would have no bearing on the story at all.


"A car full of people pulled up and asked my dad for directions to the old wal-mart" would never draw responses like "my gut tells me you were being interviewed." When its a car full of black folks asking a rich looking white family for directions all of us a sudden its an interview before a crime? Please, thats just sad.

Im not someone who sees racism everywhere, but I do think it needs to be called when it is there.

[Excaliber]

A old silver car with very dark tinted windows pulled up in front of our truck, and sat there for 2-3 minutes--we could not see the driver or any passengers due to the window tint. They just sat there. Then, they pulled around the other side of our pump and rolled down only the back window. The guys we could see were black, and my FIL is a rich-looking older white guy. We could see 3 guys in the back seat, so I figure there were 4 or 5 people in the car. He asked my FIL something about "where the old wal-mart was". It didn't make any sense, and they seemed to be sizing him up to see if he/we would be an easy target. I was feeling very uneasy and kept my eyes on them the whole time, then my wife asked me if I had my gun--I guess she felt it too. After they got done talking, they rolled up their window, and sat there again for 3-4 minutes. We could not see into the car at all. They finally pulled around, and parked in front of the gas station storefront.

I've read a lot of criminal incident reports (and written a raft of them too.) I see no valid reason for raising an alarm of racism over what appears to be a very straightforward and factual post describing an incident that provides a very beneficial learning opportunity for members of this forum.

The descriptions of the persons involved in this case, including their ethnicity, is a simple recounting of material fact. If this incident had been reported to police, the number of occupants of the suspicious vehicle and their ethnicity would have been included in the report because these facts and the description of the vehicle would have been useful for connecting them to other incidents. This has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with accurately reporting the observable visual elements at the scene.

The key element here is that the behavior of the vehicle's occupants as noted in the highlighted areas of the OP's quote above is not at all consistent with what people do when they want to get driving directions. The parking of the second vehicle in a blocking position to the OP's vehicle, the inactivity for a significant period of time, a repositioning of the vehicle, and the opening of the rear window to make contact (direction seekers open the front window so the driver can clearly hear directions first hand) do not fit an innocent interpretation. Very dark window tint is also favored by the criminal element for masking the identity, number, and movements of occupants from the police and others, and is another factor that shouldn't be overlooked.

On the other hand, the behavior of the second vehicle's occupants is very consistent with the maneuvering that accompanies the target evaluation and pre attack positioning phases of a violent incident. Furthermore, at least two people in the OP's car felt threatened enough to converse about whether a defensive weapon was available. This is consistent with the subconscious detection of additional danger signs that victims often experience just before a major incident occurs. It manifests itself as a "bad feeling," "being creeped out," or feeling that "something bad is about to happen." The OP's family felt sufficiently threatened that they terminated their gas tank fill up and left the area. Although no one can say for certain what the intentions of the persons in the second car were since no incident occurred and conversation with them was extremely limited, the account as reported sure sounds to me like the type of preattack setup I've seen with many incidents that did develop into violent crimes. Victims of completed incidents often recount that they saw very suspicious behavior on the part of their assailants, but they discounted its importance and told themselves they were just imagining things until it was too late to get away. In this case, the OP trusted his feelings instead of denying what everything he saw was telling him, and he was successful in avoiding an incident by departing the area.

My overall read is: good outcome on a very close call.

[Charles L. Cotton]

3. No racial or ethnic slurs. Descriptions of persons in actual events are fine, so long as it doesn't constitute stereotyping.

Please get back on topic. All posts off-topic will be deleted.

We are tired of this getting started every time a description includes race. It's been made it very clear many times; factual descriptions are fine, but comments in the nature of "what do you expect from 'those people'" are not. People have been banned for refusing to stop making racial slurs, so it cannot be argued that we condone it.

I don't like racial slurs in posts, nor do I like searching for them where none exist.

Chas.

[CHLSteve]

The descriptions of the persons involved in this case, including their ethnicity, is a simple recounting of material fact. If this incident had been reported to police, the number of occupants of the suspicious vehicle and their ethnicity would have been included in the report because these facts and the description of the vehicle would have been useful for connecting them to other incidents. This has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with accurately reporting the observable visual elements at the scene.

Thank you, Excaliber. I mention my FIL being "rich looking" because I think a thief would look for those things--nice clothing and jewelry, nice car, etc.. I was trying to point out the many differences between the people involved--age, race, socio-economic class, etc. In my mind, if I were looking for directions, I would tend to approach someone "like me" first.

You know, I'm fine with leaving out the name-calling and personal attacks; but I think it's a double-standard that it's "OK" for someone to lob thinly veiled insults at me implying that I am a racist/bigot/bad person for simply giving an accurate description.

Judging by Charles' comment that, "We are tired of this..." I sense that I have stepped into something that has been a problem around here before. As a new guy and infrequent visitor on these forums, I certainly didn't mean to stir up trouble. I do take exeption, however to tallmike's accusations and jabs, even if he was sly about slipping in his insults.

[tallmike]

3. No racial or ethnic slurs. Descriptions of persons in actual events are fine, so long as it doesn't constitute stereotyping.

Please get back on topic. All posts off-topic will be deleted.

We are tired of this getting started every time a description includes race. It's been made it very clear many times; factual descriptions are fine, but comments in the nature of "what do you expect from 'those people'" are not. People have been banned for refusing to stop making racial slurs, so it cannot be argued that we condone it.

I don't like racial slurs in posts, nor do I like searching for them where none exist.

Chas.

I apologize. If my posts seem to be searching them out where none exist then I may be wrong on this topic.

Steve,
Im Sorry. Your comments struck me the wrong way, but if most on this forum doesnt think they are overboard then it must be me that is being over sensitive on this instance. I think in most cases this forum has a vast majority of reasonable minded folks on it so I will trust their judgment and admit to my judgment being wrong this time.

Dont tell my wife, she still thinks Im perfect. =)

[CHLSteve]

Tallmike, thank you for that and apology accepted, let's move on.

Back on topic, someone else here mentioned it I think, but I find that in near identical situations in two different cities, I feel "safe" near my home, and "unsafe" in a strange city. I'm sure there are more Bad Guys(tm) here in Houston than in Tyler, but the fact that I live here gives me a false sense of security. Does that make sense?

[KBCraig]

Back on topic, someone else here mentioned it I think, but I find that in near identical situations in two different cities, I feel "safe" near my home, and "unsafe" in a strange city. I'm sure there are more Bad Guys(tm) here in Houston than in Tyler, but the fact that I live here gives me a false sense of security. Does that make sense?

The inverse is also true: many American tourists feel "safe" in London or Paris, which have far greater rates of violent crime than Chicago or DC.

[dihappy]

:)
So i gotta ask, whats an "rich looking, older white guy" look like?

Did he have a bunch of gold hanging around his neck, or a rolex and diamond rings on?

Maybe he was in an Armani suit, or holding a bottle of Cristal, LOL.

[Oldgringo]

I'm not sure if it was anything to worry about. The 'old Wal-Mart' in Tyler being used as a staging area, or distribution point for supplies to the evacuation shelters.

Why the deep tinted 'no see me' windows and 5-6 males in the "ride"? If the 'old Walmart' is` where I think it is on NW 323, this white dude doesn't want to get out of his car in that neighborhood at noon.

[CHLSteve]

:)
So i gotta ask, whats an "rich looking, older white guy" look like?

Did he have a bunch of gold hanging around his neck, or a rolex and diamond rings on?

Maybe he was in an Armani suit, or holding a bottle of Cristal, LOL.

Nah, gold around the neck and diamond rings scream "Big Hat, No Cattle"

"Rich Guy" in this sense let's see... well-groomed, nice collard shirt (nice clothes and shoes all around), expensive looking watch (shiny!), expensive pickup truck, etc... Oh yeah, and a GIANT WALLET sticking out of his back pocket. He refuses to use a bi-fold, and now carries a big leather full-bill size wallet that sticks out of the back of his pants 3-4". It has a silver star/emblem on it too, just in case it didn't catch your eye right away.

To be honest, he could be black, white, brown, or yellow and I would still think he had money. Some people just carry themselves that way you know? He strikes me as the kind of guy who walks around with a lot of cash ($300-1000) in his wallet at any given time, and I happen to know that he does. I know that's not "rich", but it's a good target for a typical mugger/robber.

Personally, I prefer the ripped jeans and a T-shirt look with old shoes so the Bad Guys(tm) don't know how much money I've got.