CHL in Church?

[frreed]

Yep, a minister here and I carry everyday. Bersa .380 CC for most days, Sig Pro .40 for days when I have meetings downtown, and an H&K USP 9MM for Christmas and Easter.

[TDDude]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

I carry 24/7. It seems rather silly to carry 24/6.

[mr.72]

Church is one of the few places I go frequently where I am allowed to carry. I figure in my church congregation, during any one service of adults we probably have 10-20 people carrying, about half of which I know about for a fact.

Since I got my CHL I have been carrying at church every week. However I am in a rather large church and I sure as heck hope that nobody ever has to fire a gun in defense of self or others during a church service because the probability that bystanders are going to get hit is nearly 100%.

The "crazed gunman" scenario that has played out in other churches around the country is probably as likely at my church as it would be at any other church in America. If someone walks in shooting, I am pretty sure that they will quickly get shot, and I would bet the investigation afterward would end up with the police taking a dozen different guns in for ballistic testing and they wouldn't even know who all shot the BG until after pulling slugs from the body and checking them against confiscated gun calibers. However there are no clean shots to be had in a room with 1500-2000 people in it.

[Reloader]

If the pastor knows, it imoroves the quality and shortens the length of the sermon...

[peon]

In my CHL class he said it was legal to carry in church but if you look in the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws Booklet under 46.035.b.6 It states: "(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (6) on the permises of a church, synagogue, or other established places of worship." So has this recently changed or am I not reading this correctly?

[The Annoyed Man]

In my CHL class he said it was legal to carry in church but if you look in the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws Booklet under 46.035.b.6 It states: "(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (6) on the permises of a church, synagogue, or other established places of worship." So has this recently changed or am I not reading this correctly?

You are not reading it correctly. If you use the search function, you'll find that this has been addressed in the law. You can jump to THIS POST and look at the red highlights for the explanation. Scroll to the bottom of that post for the complete answer.

[Oldgringo]

Yepper, I do.

A Sunday incident on the front steps of our FUMC church a couple of years ago is what prompted Mrs. Oldgringo and me to get our CHL's. This incident happened as we were going up the steps while the preacher and city attorney looked on - mouths agape and eyeballs bulging. I wouldn't have shot the east Texas, tattooed, body-pierced crackhead, but I would have felt more in control of the situation. Thankfully, that was my dark pants Sunday.

Carry all of the time

[TDDude]

I even have a Sunday holster to go with my Sunday gun.

[Excaliber]

Church is one of the few places I go frequently where I am allowed to carry. I figure in my church congregation, during any one service of adults we probably have 10-20 people carrying, about half of which I know about for a fact.

Since I got my CHL I have been carrying at church every week. However I am in a rather large church and I sure as heck hope that nobody ever has to fire a gun in defense of self or others during a church service because the probability that bystanders are going to get hit is nearly 100%.

The "crazed gunman" scenario that has played out in other churches around the country is probably as likely at my church as it would be at any other church in America. If someone walks in shooting, I am pretty sure that they will quickly get shot, and I would bet the investigation afterward would end up with the police taking a dozen different guns in for ballistic testing and they wouldn't even know who all shot the BG until after pulling slugs from the body and checking them against confiscated gun calibers. However there are no clean shots to be had in a room with 1500-2000 people in it.

Remember too that folks will not be cozying up to an active shooter. They'll be moving rapidly away in all directions.

There can be clean shots available, but you'd have to look for them. Kneeling and firing high on the target at an upward angle may take any overpenetration over the heads of bystanders. Likewise, a shot might be taken from a raised seating area on a downward angle selected to miss bystanders. Other viable opportunities might be presented as he moves in front of objects that stop bullets, e.g., mid height masonry walls.

The issues are certainly more complex than what you'll find on the range, but they can be dealt with successfully by a knowledgeable CHL holder. Jean Assam, who used her prior law enforcement experience to good effect, proved that decisively in Colorado.

[NcongruNt]

Church is one of the few places I go frequently where I am allowed to carry. I figure in my church congregation, during any one service of adults we probably have 10-20 people carrying, about half of which I know about for a fact.

Since I got my CHL I have been carrying at church every week. However I am in a rather large church and I sure as heck hope that nobody ever has to fire a gun in defense of self or others during a church service because the probability that bystanders are going to get hit is nearly 100%.

The "crazed gunman" scenario that has played out in other churches around the country is probably as likely at my church as it would be at any other church in America. If someone walks in shooting, I am pretty sure that they will quickly get shot, and I would bet the investigation afterward would end up with the police taking a dozen different guns in for ballistic testing and they wouldn't even know who all shot the BG until after pulling slugs from the body and checking them against confiscated gun calibers. However there are no clean shots to be had in a room with 1500-2000 people in it.

Remember too that folks will not be cozying up to an active shooter. They'll be moving rapidly away in all directions.

There can be clean shots available, but you'd have to look for them. Kneeling and firing high on the target at an upward angle may take any overpenetration over the heads of bystanders. Likewise, a shot might be taken from a raised seating area on a downward angle selected to miss bystanders. Other viable opportunities might be presented as he moves in front of objects that stop bullets, e.g., mid height masonry walls.

The issues are certainly more complex than what you'll find on the range, but they can be dealt with successfully by a knowledgeable CHL holder. Jean Assam, who used her prior law enforcement experience to good effect, proved that decisively in Colorado.

I practice shooting while kneeling for this very reason. My original reasoning was a convenience store-type situation where there are several folks around, and then found it to be equally applicable in several other situations. One of these situations is home defense. As an apartment-dweller, I have people on 2 sides of me, with one direction being the most likely place a home intruder would be breaking in (the front door). I'm on the first floor, and the floors above are concrete, making a backstop for direct impact of an upward shot. As Excaliber stated, you have to be aware of your surroundings (as always), but the situation you describe may not be impossible.

[Venus Pax]

I bring mine to church every Sunday.

[MTICop]

Church is one of the few places I go frequently where I am allowed to carry. I figure in my church congregation, during any one service of adults we probably have 10-20 people carrying, about half of which I know about for a fact.

Since I got my CHL I have been carrying at church every week. However I am in a rather large church and I sure as heck hope that nobody ever has to fire a gun in defense of self or others during a church service because the probability that bystanders are going to get hit is nearly 100%.

The "crazed gunman" scenario that has played out in other churches around the country is probably as likely at my church as it would be at any other church in America. If someone walks in shooting, I am pretty sure that they will quickly get shot, and I would bet the investigation afterward would end up with the police taking a dozen different guns in for ballistic testing and they wouldn't even know who all shot the BG until after pulling slugs from the body and checking them against confiscated gun calibers. However there are no clean shots to be had in a room with 1500-2000 people in it.

Remember too that folks will not be cozying up to an active shooter. They'll be moving rapidly away in all directions.

There can be clean shots available, but you'd have to look for them. Kneeling and firing high on the target at an upward angle may take any overpenetration over the heads of bystanders. Likewise, a shot might be taken from a raised seating area on a downward angle selected to miss bystanders. Other viable opportunities might be presented as he moves in front of objects that stop bullets, e.g., mid height masonry walls.

The issues are certainly more complex than what you'll find on the range, but they can be dealt with successfully by a knowledgeable CHL holder. Jean Assam, who used her prior law enforcement experience to good effect, proved that decisively in Colorado.

I practice shooting while kneeling for this very reason. My original reasoning was a convenience store-type situation where there are several folks around, and then found it to be equally applicable in several other situations. One of these situations is home defense. As an apartment-dweller, I have people on 2 sides of me, with one direction being the most likely place a home intruder would be breaking in (the front door). I'm on the first floor, and the floors above are concrete, making a backstop for direct impact of an upward shot. As Excaliber stated, you have to be aware of your surroundings (as always), but the situation you describe may not be impossible.

Certain LEO and Personal Protection Instructors teach the kneeling technique as well. We learned ours from the LAPD. Back during the Olymics in LA the LAPD practiced shooting from both knees in preparation for a potential terrorist act. It has been named the "California Kneeling" position. You can shoot upright on your knees or leaned back with your butt on your heels. The idea was to shoot the bad guys while minimizing the risk of hitting bystanders that were clearing out of the area. I know this technique has different names and may or may not have been "invented" by LAPD but they are known for making it "famous".

[RPBrown]

Every Sundat. In fact, just yesterday my pastor, my wife, and I were discussing if we thought it would be appropriate for him to get a CHL. Of course you know our answer.

[mr.72]

Most of the time I am at church, I am on a stage/platform. Actually this means that if there were any "crazed gunman" scenario, I would likely be in the line of fire because of my position. The stage in our main sanctuary is over 4 feet high, and the floor is polished concrete. This is not a good scenario for shooting at someone on the floor without hitting a bystander either directly or with a ricochet.

Little matter for me anyway, since during these services there will be at least 10 more armed CHL holders in the room who are in a much better tactical position than me. I am not carrying there because I expect a crazed gunman. I think that is possible but pretty unlikely. But we have had some nutty people there and I do think that particularly not when church is going on, property crime is fairly likely. There is a lot of expensive stuff in that building. Computers, sound equipment, my own equipment, plus a lot of expensive cars in the parking lot.

[The Annoyed Man]

I wore my Kimber UCII on stage yesterday morning through both services, no problem. However, I did do my own Aviom setup so as not to be outed.