Another great reason to carry during the holidays...

[nils]

2 killed in Toys R Us store in Southern California
Associated Press
Nov. 28, 2008, 8:28PM
1 2
photo
Reed Saxon Associated Press

A woman and child sit on the grass following a shooting that left two dead in a Toys R Us store in Palm Desert, Calif., Friday.
Share
icon Print
iconEmail
ADD TO DEL.ICIO.USDel.icio.us
ADD TO DIGGDigg
ADD TO TECHNORATITechnorati
Yahoo! Buzz

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

[atxgun]

What the expletive... That's all I can say.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

[Excaliber]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

You'd be pretty safe betting that these were not CHL holders, and the nature of the incident supports why you should carry a gun while toy shopping - because thugs do.

You can take the gangbanger out of the 'hood, but you can't take the' hood out of the gangbanger.

[Liberty]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

One of the talking heads on Fox and Freinds asked the same rhetorical question. No one challanged him either. I am gratful that any CHLer there had enough restraint to stay out of it.

[flintknapper]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

You'd be pretty safe betting that these were not CHL holders, and the nature of the incident supports why you should carry a gun while toy shopping - because thugs do.

You can take the gangbanger out of the 'hood, but you can't take the' hood out of the gangbanger.

As news of this unfolds...I wager we will find this incident was simply a couple of gang bangers killing one another (so whats new).

[The Annoyed Man]

[Jedi Mind Trick]THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. California's draconian gun laws ARE effective.[/Jedi Mind Trick]

[WildBill]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

One of the talking heads on Fox and Freinds asked the same rhetorical question. No one challanged him either. I am gratful that any CHLer there had enough restraint to stay out of it.

This took place in Riverside County California where there are a total of 318 CCWs. So the answer to the question what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun is: Cops and Criminals.

[smyrna]

I just saw this on CNN. Sad. More details here...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081129/D94OJDJ80.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This and the "Wal Mart trampling" are humanity at its worst! Black Friday takes on a whole new meaning.

[dihappy]

I am bothered by the comment made questioning what kind of person goes toy shopping with a gun. The next move I expect is for Toys R Us to post no gun signs on their stores, as if this will magically make guys like this not come into the store.

Its ridiculous! I would have answered, "Actually sir, there are X thousand civilians armed in this state and many who shop at Toys r Us. Im willing to bet that the two dead men did NOT have a permit to carry."

edit: oops, this is Kalifornia, so there arent "thousands" of civilians who carry :(

[03Lightningrocks]

I also think it is a safe bet these two yahoo's did not possess a permit to carry. What drives me nuts is how easy it is for people to lump legal carry in with criminal carry. A person making a comment like "what kind of person carries a gun toy shopping?", is insulting as heck to me. I'm the kind of person who carries while toy shopping...and to the grocery store and to anywhere else I go. I can't even speed without feeling guilty, but here you have the ill informed assuming that only a criminal would carry a weapon. Oh...it drives me nuts. Most of the time, I don't even know what to say to comments like that. I have actually had members of my own family say things to me like, "we are only going to the restaurant, why are you carrying?". I just tell them I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. UUURRRghhh...I'll stop now. Grrrrr...perceptions can be so frustrating.

[Plato]

I get that "why do you need to carry there" response from my family and friends. Logic and reason are not in favor especially when reason calls one to be prepared to deal with evil. It is much more comforting to pretend you will never face it, and thats the real basis for their ignorance.

I know fellow church members who generally favor CHLs but can't understand why you should carry everywhere. My best response is that there is no place or time in this fallen world where one should choose to be unprepared. Walking out the door to go grab a bite to eat and leaving your pistol at home IS choosing to go unprepared.

I've even had folks at the local gun club say (almost with pride) that they would never carry a handgun. In that case it was an older skeet shooter who sorta felt the handgun range was giving the club a bad rep.

[Chemist45]

To get a CHL in CA you have to be a judge, politician, movie star or personal friend of the sheriff.
Since these two were obviously none of the above, they were criminals.
Most likely they are gang members.
This will eventually come out, but will not be reported.

This incident does not reflect on us (CHL holders) any more than bootleggers reflect on truck drivers.

[retrieverman]

we live in a scary world.

[KD5NRH]

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Translation: "Befoul not the name of this Holiest of Sale Days with suggestions that such things are more likely to happen when you pack half the town into one store."