NY Giants Player Shoots Self in Leg in NYC Nightclub

[casingpoint]

people are issued permits in NY

Remember when people who couldn't, wouldn't or otherwise didn't pay a poll tax could not vote? Found unconstitutional in federal court. Same principle applies to concealed carry states. You don't pay, you can't play. The economics of obtaining a permit puts them out of reach for many people who need guns the most to defend themselves. This amounts to a defacto ban of handguns.

[jimlongley]

people are issued permits in NY

Remember when people who couldn't, wouldn't or otherwise didn't pay a poll tax could not vote? Found unconstitutional in federal court. Same principle applies to concealed carry states. You don't pay, you can't play. The economics of obtaining a permit puts them out of reach for many people who need guns the most to defend themselves. This amounts to a defacto ban of handguns.

Not entirely true. Actually in NY City, as well as in the state, the system is much worse than that. If you have political pull, you will get a permit or if you can show a "need" you are quite likely to get a permit (jewelers, business people carrying large amounts of cash). If you cannot show cause or yank the right chain, if you just want to casually spend some time plinking with a .22 at the dump, or if you think you might be interested in learning to target shoot, good luck, in some counties you can get a permit just by applying and passing the background check, in others your application will sit on a desk for 6 months, and then be denied for cause, and the cause will be: 1, you have young children in the household at times, or; 2, you are too young, or; 3, you are too old, or; 4, you have not shown convincing need. Among others we saw when we were busy suing the judges and state for blocking permits.

Our suits did accomplish something, the law was changed to include that the permit application must be accepted, they have 6 months to approve or deny, and a reason has to be given to deny, where it had been indefinite and a judge or licensing officer could leave the application unprocessed forever and didn't have to give a reason for denial. We sued over the bench veto, and won, and our test case's permit was then not accepted by the clerk, just tossed in the trash, so we sued and won, so then our test case's permit was denied for no reason, so we sued and won, and then the permit was denied for a couple of the above reasons, and we ran out of funds.

Back to your point about poll taxes, actually the fee system in NY, which used to be locally controlled, something else that was tested in court, is very reasonable compared to Texas, and since there are more pistol permits in existence in NY than Texas (Texas had 288,000+ in 2007, NY shows 1,200,000, a ratio of a little over 4 to 1) it would appear that NY is by far less unconstitutional than TX.

NY's fees are:14. Fees. In the city of New York and the county of Nassau, the annual license fee shall be twenty-five dollars for gunsmiths and fifty dollars for dealers in firearms. In such city, the city council and in the county of Nassau the Board of Supervisors shall fix the fee to be charged for a license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver and provide for the disposition of such fees. Elsewhere in the state, the licensing officer shall collect and pay into the county treasury the following fees: for each license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, not less than three dollars nor more than ten dollars as may be determined by the legislative body of the county; for each amendment thereto, three dollars, and five dollars in the county of Suffolk; and for each license issued to a gunsmith or dealer in firearms, ten dollars. The fee for a duplicate license shall be five dollars. The fee for processing a license transfer between counties shall be five dollars. The fee for processing a license or renewal thereof for a qualified retired police officer as defined under subdivision thirty-four of section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law, or a qualified retired sheriff, undersheriff, or deputy sheriff of the city of New York as defined under subdivision two of section 2.10 of the criminal procedure, or a qualified retired bridge and tunnel officer, sergeant or lieutenant of the triborough bridge and tunnel authority as defined under subdivision twenty of section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law, or a qualified retired uniformed court officer in the unified court system, or a qualified retired court clerk in the unified court system in the first and second judicial departments, as defined in paragraphs a and b of subdivision twenty-one of section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law or a retired correction officer as defined in subdivision twenty-five of section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law shall be waived in all counties throughout the state.


Once again, back to your original point, Burress, being a sports star, celebrity, and having the pull that accrues from those as well as plenty of money, could easily have applied for a permit, making him a very poor test case. Of course the fact that he is not a resident of NY State might enter into the question, since NY does not have a structure that allows out of state pistol permit holders, not to say they wouldn't they just don't have the administrative structure to handle such applications. Burress also hasn't bothered to get licensed in New Jersey, his home of record, and so he violated, knowingly (remember he deigned to get a FL permit, which implies awareness of the law) not just NY law, but NJ law as well as federal law.

Whether or not NY's law is unconstitutional, or any state's law for that matter, is not and has not been my point, only that Burress is a very poor test case.



I hope they send Burress farther upstate than Sing Sing, Ossining is just a short drive, Dannemora or Attica would be better IMO.

[AFJailor]

The guy shot himself in the leg, faces huge legal fee's and more than likely will be kicked off the Giants roster... I'd say he has been punished enough.

(Not that he isnt stupid for carrying a gun in his waistband and going dancing...)

[FlynJay]

The guy shot himself in the leg, faces huge legal fee's and more than likely will be kicked off the Giants roster... I'd say he has been punished enough.

(Not that he isnt stupid for carrying a gun in his waistband and going dancing...)

My problem with this is that if he wern't a giants player he would have the book thrown at him. They are called consequences, that is what he gets for showing off his gun in a NY nightclub, since we all know guns just don't go off, they are fired.

[casingpoint]

Ossining is just a short drive, Dannemora or Attica would be better IMO

Well, he's going to one of those places if Little Mikey Bloomberg has any say in the matter. He's been grandstanding something fierce on the incident. Even demanding the officials at the hospital that treated Burress be charged with a misdemeanor for not notifying the police of a gunshot wound. A hospital staff charged with a misdemeanor...is that for real?

[flintknapper]

Ossining is just a short drive, Dannemora or Attica would be better IMO

Well, he's going to one of those places if Little Mikey Bloomberg has any say in the matter. He's been grandstanding something fierce on the incident. Even demanding the officials at the hospital that treated Burress be charged with a misdemeanor for not notifying the police of a gunshot wound. A hospital staff charged with a misdemeanor...is that for real?

Actually, what happened is that a (doctor I believe) knowingly admitted/treated him under a false name. Also, in most states....any gunshot wound must be reported by hospital staff.

The man was in clear violation of several laws, had at least one friend try to cover up the matter, and the night club KNEW he was armed.

ALL should be prosecuted to the fullest extent...and this person's celebrity status should be the LAST thing on peoples minds.

There are things more important than catching a football in the end zone!

[jimlongley]

Ossining is just a short drive, Dannemora or Attica would be better IMO

Well, he's going to one of those places if Little Mikey Bloomberg has any say in the matter. He's been grandstanding something fierce on the incident. Even demanding the officials at the hospital that treated Burress be charged with a misdemeanor for not notifying the police of a gunshot wound. A hospital staff charged with a misdemeanor...is that for real?

Yup, NY State law is very specific about wounds being reported.

Section 265.25 Certain wounds to be reported

Every case of a bullet wound, gunshot wound, powder burn or any other injury arising from or caused by the discharge of a gun or firearm, and every case of a wound which is likely to or may result in death and is actually or apparently inflicted by a knife, icepick or other sharp or pointed instrument, shall be reported at once to the police authorities of the city, town or village where the person reporting is located by: (a) the physician attending or treating the case; or (b) the manager, superintendent or other person in charge, whenever such case is treated in a hospital, sanitarium or other institution. Failure to make such report is a class A misdemeanor. This subdivision shall not apply to such wounds, burns or injuries received by a member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of New York while engaged in the actual performance of duty.

The doctor that treated Burress and the administrator in charge of reporting such things should both join him in Dannemora.

And casing, I think you missed my point, or maybe you don't know the geography involved, but my prior statement meant that Sing Sing was unacceptable, that Burress should be in a cold and remote place, like Dannemora.

[casingpoint]

All I know about New York prisons is that a guy who spent three years in Sing Sing on a weapons charge told me that if they know you will fight to the death, they won't bother trying to rape you.

If you ever do any hard time, you'll know who "they" are. There won't be any esoteric debate about the non-specificity of the word.

[jimlongley]

All I know about New York prisons is that a guy who spent three years in Sing Sing on a weapons charge told me that if they know you will fight to the death, they won't bother trying to rape you.

If you ever do any hard time, you'll know who "they" are. There won't be any esoteric debate about the non-specificity of the word.

Well that explains a little. Don't you just hate it when people talk about things they don't know much about.

Sing Sing is a maximum security prison just "up the river" from NY City, and just a short train ride for visitors. Dannemora is a maximum security facility located just south of the Canadian border in NY state, and is not as modern, as well heated, and nowhere nearly as accessible to visitors as Sing Sing.

When a neighbor's son was arrested and convicted of several crimes, including the theft of a (inoperable replica) gun from my home, she complained long and loud about his being sent to Dannemora because it was going to be such a hardship to visit him there. She didn't get a lot of sympathy from me.

[casingpoint]

The Wall Street Journal has some kind things to say about Plaxico Burress and the constitutionality of the concealed carry law he is charged under .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228352 ... inion_main" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AWB09]

I hope he gets the same treatmement as someone who isn't a celebrity would get if they carried a concealed Glock without a valid New York license and then tried to cover up the shooting by giving a false name.

[srothstein]

Thanks Casingpoint. I never would have thought the WSJ would print an article of that type.

I actually agree with Mr. Kopel in the article. I hope Burress uses the 2nd Amendment as his defense and the charges are thrown out. I agree that this is his right, even when acting stupid. The only bad part is that I don't think a legally binding precedent would be set because the DA would not be dumb enough to appeal the trial court's decision because of who it is.

[Liberty]

Its a great reasoned article By a member of the CATO institute (Libertarian). Burress is an an idiot, he made several huge mistakes.

He was Mexican carrying
He was Mexican carrying in sweats..
He was Mexican carrying a Glock (let's be honest a SA/DA with manual safety wouldnt have been as likely to go off under these circumstanses
He was drinking while carrying.
He was at a night club while carrying.
He was carrying in a state city that he didn't have a permit for.
He got other people in trouble in his attempt to cover up.

Guys like this don't help our cause, but the 3.5 year mandatory sentence because he didn't have a permit in a city that won't allow him a permit is a real crime. He will get an unjust sentence for an unjust crime. A druggy who is armed with a knife and mugs someone on Central Park would likely get probation if he had a clean record.