Dog Attack

[etc]

Looking for some thoughts and advice for next time.

On Sunday I was headed with the family to the grocery store, wife in passenger seat, two kids (1yr old and 2yr old) in carseats in back. On the way out of our neighborhood we saw two men walking their dogs and what looked like an unleashed dog snapping at the other dogs and possible the man. Once we realized what was going on the agressor dog was walking away. We turned around to see if they were okay and when we pulled up near them the agressor dog was bag with two other unleashed dogs, barking up a storm in the middle of the street. Not sure what kind they were, they were a bit smaller than pit bulls but fatter bodys than pits I have seen before, similar face but smaller neck. I gave my wife the cell and told her to call the police. I got drew my gun tucked it under my jacket in my hand so as not to alarm anyone, exited the car (quiet residential street, lots of houses) and asked the man if he was ok. He explained they were walking their dogs and these came and attacked the dogs and asked if they were mine. They were not and I told him so. One of the unleashed dogs then attacked the man's leg, while another dog was barking furiously at the other man's dogs and the third was barking at me. I started to move closer to the dog who was attacking the man's leg and kept eye contact with the one barking at me. The man was kicking the dog with his other leg trying to get it off and holding his dogs back as best he could. He managed to get the dog off his leg before I closed the distance completely and then a lady came out of her house from across the street, yelling at the dogs, who stopped what they were doing and ran to her and then back in the house she came from. She came to talk with the man and apologize, etc... She said the dogs were not hers that the owner would be home soon and she would have him get with the other men. I gave the man who was attacked my contact info and asked if he was ok. He thought so, but when he rolled up his pant leg he had puncture wounds from the dog bite. Wife got off the phone with police when lady called dogs off.

Sorry for the long intro, now to the question:
What was the right thing to do? When would it have been appropriate to shoot?

In retrospect I think we should have still asked the police to come out even though the dog stopped. I was tempted to shoot all three dogs as they were unleashed without collars and acting agressively but was worried because I was in a residential neighborhood. I tried to get closer to the dog biting the man because I did not want to shoot from more than 20 feet away at a moving animal near other animals and people. I kept thinking, get closer, don't run, watch the dog near you, if that guy hits the ground open fire from where you are.

[flintknapper]

For general information and opinions on this subject....you can use the search function. It is a much discussed subject.

[Shiner Bock]

I think you did fine. You would be questioning your decision a whole lot more had you shot.

[Purplehood]

One concern I would have about shooting at dogs on a street is the possibility of ricochets. If you are shooting at a dog, you are generally going to be aiming down. I admit that I do not have the faintest idea of how bullets and pavement interact.

I realize that that may sound silly to be worried about, but it immediately occurred to me.

[CHLSteve]

I think you did fine. You would be questioning your decision a whole lot more had you shot.

+1 The man's life does not to appear to have been in danger based on your description. I know that is not the only requirement for when you can or cannot shot your weapon, but my point is that I would never draw in such a high-risk area (neighborhood with kids around) unless it were absolutely life or death. That's just me, but if you are getting bit by a small dog, don't expect me to save you with my gun--sorry. Where was his CHL? Can this man not protect himself? If someone was absolutely being overpowered by dogs (perhaps a child), and getting bit to the degree where serious injury or death might occur, I would intervene and only with a gun if it were my last resort. My $.02

[TxFig]

This is my first post as I just joined the board (didn't even know it existed).


Imho, once the dog crossed the line from "acting aggressively" into an actual attack, I think shooting the dog was not only justifiable, I believe that is what SHOULD have been done.

Background - I have lived my entire life around large dogs, and ones that have a traditional "bad reputation". My mother raised German Shepherds back in the 1960s & 70, where all of her friends also had Dobermans and Rotts. I do not fear dogs - any dog - and have full confidence in my ability to handle even those that are outright aggressive (including a pit bull in the middle of a fight).

I give this background so that you can understand what I am about to say: a dog that will attack unprovoked IS a life threatening danger. The size of the dog is irrelevant. Therefore, this is precisely the kind of situation where the use of a weapon is called for.


How is that for my first post?

[flb_78]

I would of shot em. When a dog starts chewing on a person, that's usually a bad sign. You're lucky the other ones decided not to help.

[CHLSteve]

I'm surprised at you guys, but it won't be me who has to go through the problems associated with firing your weapon in a case like that!

Don't get me wrong--I would shoot my gun to defend MYSELF, or my family. But this "random dude" is on his own to protect himself. I will not risk ruining my life (or an innocent bystander) by protecting a guy who can and should have known better. He can use his own CHL to defend himself against dog attacks. I don't see the rational for getting involved here, unless you just want to shoot your gun and play the hero.

[flb_78]

I drove by a burning car once, not my problem...

[CHLSteve]

I drove by a burning car once, not my problem...

It sounds like you are trying to be snide, but if so you are missing my point.

I'm not speaking against helping your fellow man. I am speaking against running in to rescue the world with your handgun. To someone with a big hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Abraham]

Sounds like a concerned citizen vs the Kitty Genovese syndrome...

That said, the concerned citizen DIDN'T use his weapon, but came to the aid of those in obvious trouble.

Do any us want to get involved when some stranger is in trouble and we can possibly help? Do we potentially put ourselves in harm's way if we do?

Sure.

Legally, physically, and emotionally.

Tough decision.

Risky.

You can declare it's all to much for you and if that's your call, no one can blame you. Look the other way and keep on moving. You have your reasons.

Or not...

[Excaliber]

What Steve said concerning the hammer.

It is wise to give yourself as many options as possible. Cell phone, pepper spray, flashlight, etc.

If you felt the man was in danger, and you felt compelled to help, the cell was a good response. Possibly pepper spray a second response.

The points that the victim did not provide for his own defense, and that the decision of whether or not to intervene when we believe we can help another who needs it is a tough one, are both well taken. There are no simple answers here.

For a whole lot of reasons (ricochet, moving dog and moving victim, residential neighborhood, etc.) and a situation that was not life threatening, drawing or firing a handgun would not have been a good idea under the circumstances as described. Firing it especially could have caused greater harm than what the biting dog was inflicting.

If you decided to intervene directly instead of just requesting police assistance, an OC projector like the Kimber Guardian Angel (not just a spray) would have been a good option to use on the dogs. Of course, you have to have it with you to be able to use it. It is usually quite effective, has a sharply reduced risk of contaminating anyone it isn't aimed at, and poses very little danger of lasting harm to anyone involved.

[Paladin]

I'm a little unclear about how much damage the unleashed dogs were doing.

If 3 sizable dogs are attacking people... I think the dogs could have been legally shot. Glad the situation worked out to where everyone and all the 4-legged critters made it home.

I carry OC/CS to avoid shooting dogs... Verbal commands like "NO" or "GO HOME" can also be surprisingly effective.

Gun is there in case #1. The threat is so severe there is no time for anything else, or #2. nothing else works.

[Rex B]

I'm with CHLsteve.
I'm not going to risk my future handling someone else's failure to plan for their own defense, unless a life is in immenent danger.
I carry pepper in one pocket when i go walking, pistol in the other.