ID in the home...

[The Annoyed Man]

A strange question occurred to me this evening. Let's say you are carrying (concealed) inside your own home, and a police officer comes to your door to ask you some questions - doesn't matter why. The officer asks to see your identification as proof that this is your home.

Since you are in your own home, and the officer is on your property, are you required to show CHL along with TDL the same way you would be required to do out in public? I guess another way to phrase it would be, are there any exceptions at all to the circumstances under which you are required to present both TDL and CHL to an LEO who asks you for ID?

I'm not one of those people would argue with a cop about whether or not I am required to show him my ID. I'm just curious about this particular scenario.

[atxgun]

As I understand the law you would be required to produce your CHL. Seems to be in line with the whole requirement of needing to do so when carrying in a car even though you don't need a CHL to do so.

I would be very happy if someone could correct me though.

[srothstein]

The answer is really clear when you look at the exact wording of the law. You are required to show the CHL with the DL/ID when asked for it by a peace officer unless you do not have a gun with you. There is no limit to where or how the officer asks for the ID.

The only part that is unclear is if you have to produce the CHL when you would not have to produce a DL. From the way the law is written, I would say that it applies then since it does not say "when required" to ID, just when demanded by an officer. I can definitely see a defense in this if you are not required to produce an ID at all, but it is not the right place to argue, as you pointed out already.

[seamusTX]

I have BTDT. In this city, if you report a crime such as burglary, the police ask you to produce ID.

No problem came from such an incident, other than already having stuff stolen.

- Jim

[KD5NRH]

A strange question occurred to me this evening. Let's say you are carrying (concealed) inside your own home, and a police officer comes to your door to ask you some questions - doesn't matter why. The officer asks to see your identification as proof that this is your home.

Well, first, depending on when he came to the door, he might have to wait for me to go get it from my pants.

OTOH, I'd most likely just tell him it's in the other room, with my CHL, and ask if he'd prefer that I just give him my DL number from memory.

[Liberty]

I have BTDT. In this city, if you report a crime such as burglary, the police ask you to produce ID.

No problem came from such an incident, other than already having stuff stolen.

- Jim

This is becoming a common practice. I believe that it is done to help keep accuracy in the reports. Prevent misspellings etc. I don't like it much either. Makes it seem as though the victim is the one being investigated.

[The Annoyed Man]

I suspected that the ID requirement still stood. I just wasn't certain if the law drew a distinction between what a CHL holder is required to do in public versus in the privacy of his own home. Like I said, I'm not one to argue with a cop. I trust that he has a valid reason for asking for my identification - even if he chooses not to disclose that reason at the time.

I was recently involved in another discussion on a different gun board in which one member had asked specifically about ID requirements with regard to Texas CHLs. He received a number of replies - including from me - that CHL holders are required to produce TDL & CHL if asked by an officer. There was one lone holdout who castigated the rest of the members for being "sheeple" (I hate that word) for being too willing to show ID to an LEO. He claimed that he always challenged the LEO to state his reasons for wanting to see his ID, and if the reason wasn't good enough, he said he'd tell the officer that he had no cause to "see his papers" and then he walked away. Sovereign citizen, and all that...

I suggested the guy had a chip on his shoulder, which he denied. At least one Texas CHL instructor told him that the law doesn't require a Texas LEO to disclose his reason for asking for the ID, and that Texas law doesn't allow the officer's failure to disclose the reason as a valid defense to failure to provide the required ID. Thus, even if the officer didn't have a legitimate need to see the ID, the CHL holder is still guilty of failing to show the ID on request, and his CHL is subject to suspension.

Do you guys concur?

[jimlongley]

I wouldn't be carrying CONCEALED in my own home.

[saj111]

i guess i'm missing something. why would you not want to show your chl to a leo when he asks for i d.

i'm not concerned with the exact wording of the law, if asked for i d by a leo i will also give him my chl whether i'm carrying or not (it's not often i'm not carrying.)

[The Annoyed Man]

i guess i'm missing something. why would you not want to show your chl to a leo when he asks for i d.

i'm not concerned with the exact wording of the law, if asked for i d by a leo i will also give him my chl whether i'm carrying or not (it's not often i'm not carrying.)

Exactly. You're not missing a thing. I stated in my OP that I'm not one to argue with a cop about ID. I was just intellectually curious if there was a distinction between CHL in public and CHL in your own home with regard to a CHL holder's ID requirements. My natural inclination is to be as cooperative as possible with LEOs at all times. I don't view them as the enemy.

I wouldn't be carrying CONCEALED in my own home.

When I do carry in my home, it is not intentionally concealed. Sometimes, it is not concealed. Sometimes it is. When it is concealed, it is usually because I've either just prepared to go out, or have just returned from having been out of the house. Sometimes, it's just because I'm a little cold and I've donned a sweater or something that happens to cover the weapon...

...and there are lots of times I don't carry inside my own home - like in the shower, etc.

Anyway, it was just an "intellectual curiosity" kind of question.

[seamusTX]

This is becoming a common practice. I believe that it is done to help keep accuracy in the reports. Prevent misspellings etc. I don't like it much either. Makes it seem as though the victim is the one being investigated.

From the LE point of view, I could be some kook reporting a burglary at a place that is not my property. There is no limit to the weird things that people do.

When this happened to me, it was not like a traffic stop where they call the information back to the dispatcher to check for warrants. The officer just wrote it down.

- Jim

[GrillKing]

I wouldn't be carrying CONCEALED in my own home.

Presentation of license is still required, concealed or not.
If you are carrying a handgun on or about your person and are asked for ID, you have to produce the DL and CHL, regardless of whether or not you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. Stupid, but it is the law.... I mean, if you are open carrying on your own property, it's kind of obvious that you don't need to present a CHL to let them know you are carrying.

Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

[Morgan]

So the obvious next question is this... let's say I come into my house and set my wallet down. I don't disarm. I'm in a different part of my house, and the scenario transpires.... I don't have my CHL **ON** me. But it's in the house. I do have the gun ON me.

Ok...first question...

What do you tell the cop? "I'll get my ID, it's in the other room"?

Or, "Officer, I can get you my DL as well as my concealed carry permit, they're in the other room."?

Or, "Officer, I can get you my DL as well as my concealed carry permit, they're in the other room. Just to let you know, I am carrying a firearm right now."?

What would be most prudent?

[seamusTX]

What do you tell the cop? "I'll get my ID, it's in the other room"?

IMHO, that is the correct answer.

It's not a good idea to cause unnecessary alarm by mentioning weapons. Remember this?

- Jim

[couzin]

I was recently involved in another discussion on a different gun board in which one member had asked specifically about ID requirements with regard to Texas CHLs. He received a number of replies - including from me - that CHL holders are required to produce TDL & CHL if asked by an officer. There was one lone holdout who castigated the rest of the members for being "sheeple" (I hate that word) for being too willing to show ID to an LEO. He claimed that he always challenged the LEO to state his reasons for wanting to see his ID, and if the reason wasn't good enough, he said he'd tell the officer that he had no cause to "see his papers" and then he walked away. Sovereign citizen, and all that...

I suggested the guy had a chip on his shoulder, which he denied.

You know - that whole 'sheeple' and 'what don't you understand about 2A' kinda gets me also on occasion. LEO (whether trooper, county, constable, game warden (even non-LEO park rangers)) are not (IMHO) setting out to just hassle people by demanding identification. I would think that most 'law-abiding' citizens, especially those with concealed carry license/permits, would actually be the first to provide whatever is being asked (or without being asked). We actually should all be on the same side. Acting like a thug and claiming the LEO doesn't have any 'right' to ask for ID is not going to bode well for future encounters with LEOs.